To Alison and Barry, actually, and to Fred and Kasper indirectly: I can't
for the life of me see sexism [against females] in anything Fred's written
in these messages in apparent response to Barry's posting of Lauterbach's
work. If we substitute 'he' for 'she', we come up with an equally effective
damning of what Fred thinks is silly, fakey, outmoded, bad poetry and bad
poetry-reading. Labeling folks as 'sexist' requires careful thought. If we
know that Fred pretty continuously damns female poets and not male poets, I
should think we'd have a possible case against his views, but I simply don't
know that that is the case. He, as I can recall, strongly dislikes poetry
with a certain worldview---whether males' or females' poetry.
Further on the subject of sexism: If behavior typically associated with
females is damned, what's wrong with that? I think everything's right with
it. Many of Sarah Palin's behaviors, for example, are very much those
typically associated with females, and they're rightfully thought repugnant.
Where's an argument in any of that? Sexism---against males as well as
females covers _far_ more serious ground than what you have raised here
about Fred's 'take' on Lauterbach. It's well for us, all of us, to open up
such a discussion of sexism, as well as racism, so that we can KNOW what we
think and feel. Poets as starters of the discussion?----a fabulous
beginning to an essential, fundamental, crucial debate.
And further, If folks disagree with Fred's opinion, let them go ahead and
give theirs rather than 'red herring' us with 'isms'. If their opinion is
given as artfully as Fred has given his, then I'm sure it will receive due
attention.
Still further, and for Alison, the cannibal and ventilator quotes that
Kasper contributed are neither racist nor sexist---though perhaps
animalist---and they're hilarious.
Best,
Judy
2008/10/7 Frederick Pollack <[log in to unmask]>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:23 AM
> Subject: Re: 2 poems
>
>
> You know, the funny thing is that I could let Frederick's obvious
>> sexism go by without a ruffle (and it's not for me to arbitrate,
>> anyway) - but Kasper, this is a horrible and utterly racist quotation.
>> And damn the accusations of PC, which are often just lazy defences of
>> lazy bigotries.
>>
>>
> For the record, I absolutely deny sexism, "obvious" or otherwise.
> Including "sexist" intent in my original phrase "meaty masterpiece." The
> kind of reasoning Barry Alpert showed in a) calling ME sexist because that
> phrase struck HIM as sexist, as well as b) intimating that La Auerbach is
> beyond attack because she has garnered po-biz and academic honors, is not to
> be tolerated. But the bleating of a herd of PC-liberals is as little
> susceptible to argument as a swarm of rightists. I will NOT get into an
> IDIOTIC pseudo-controversy of this sort, which always results in someone
> leaving the list in a self-righteous huff. I'll just go back to my usual
> lurking state.
>
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