Perhaps a key point is in your last paragraph ; so that it is not in the
people/animals which create the marks but in those who perceive the marks as
drawings.
On 28/10/08 00:38, "Margaret Mayhew" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Lizzie and others......
>
> this debate has been lovely to read, but I was perturbed by some of the
> comments about drawing/intention making humans different from animals.
>
> i've just read a LOVELY book by Elizabeth Grosz called "art, territory and
> Chaos" where she explores Deleuze's and Darwin's ideas on creativity and
> animality in order to come up with a really refreshing account of what
> art, arhcitecture and music are and could be.......
>
> Briefly - she gives a metaphysical account of art as something that humans
> and animals SHARE: with creativity being something that is part of the
> excessive fecundity of nature, sexuality and life.......
>
> I'm uncomfortable with drawing an implicit distinction between the tracks
> made by animals, birds nests, toilet grafitti and Leonardo da vinci's
> cartoons....... while we can attribute levels of intentionality or
> linguistic depth to the latter - in many ways the sheer wonder and delight
> of beautiful drawings - for me - sets up a sensory intensity that IS as
> exciting and affecting as birdsong, or watching animals in the wild....
>
> According to this - i guess Deleuzian - conception... drawing could be
> regarded as a Territorializing and a Deterritorialising movement..... to
> draw; marks off areas, delineates contours, describes forms or generates
> symbols - but at the same time there are always the points where a drawing
> takes the makers and the viewers out of what is known and into something
> else...... even if it's a scribbled doodle, a shopping list or a
> map....and these points of excitement or delight are often way outside the
> intentions of the 'drawers' - whihc is why collage has been such a shocking
> and exciting strategy.....
>
> so I think my answer is "no" - I don't think people/beings whatever have to
> "know" what drawing "is" in order to generate a set of marks or traces of
> movements that other beings find interesting......
>
> good luck with the dissertation
>
> cheers
>
> Margaret Mayhew
> PhD Candidate
> Deartment of Gender and Cultural Studies
> University of Sydney, Australia
>
> Quoting lizzie chubb <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> The definition used is along the lines of ' anything that makes a mark
>> on anyhing that takes a mark placed with intention' thus making drawing
>> a human or 'minded' process
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:54:48 +0000
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: input please
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> Hard to answer the question Lizzie, without knowing what definition of
>> drawing your thesis comes to.
>>
>> Damian Fennell ARBSsculpture and drawing
>> http://www.artfennell.com
>>
>> On 27 Oct 2008, at 15:29, lizzie chubb wrote:You are correct in saying
>> this and a definition will have been established by this time in the
>> essay to get to this question. Therefore, assume that a definition of
>> drawing has been established, whatever it may be and consider the
>> question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:11:21 +0000
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: input please
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> To say that somebody is 'able to draw' you have to at least be able to
>> define what 'drawing' is, otherwise the statement is meaningless.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:57 AM, lizzie chubb <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone.
>>
>> I am currently writing my dissertation on a drawing topic and would be
>> interested in your response to the following query.
>>
>> Do you need to have an undertanding of what drawing is to be able to
>> draw? Please give reasons for any answers.
>>
>> I will be grateful for any responses and input.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Lizzie Chubb
>>
>> Student at Loughborough University.
>>
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>
>
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