Dear Helene,

I think you must have the wrong person, unless I should have done an essay 
I don't know about.

Best wishes,

Betsy

--On 22 August 2008 09:57 +0100 Helene Pursey 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Patsy
>
> As I haven't heard anything from you for a good while I wondered how the
> rest of the academic year went for you - whether you submitted an essay
> and if so what you wrote about. Helene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of mature learning for leisure, health, or work
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Patsy Clarke
> Sent: 02 September 2007 23:54
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: mature learning personal preferences (narrative vs.
> "lists")
>
>
> I find it easier to derive categories or labels from the narratives
> after
> the narratives have been explored and reflected on.   Also as a reader I
> am better able to distance myself from another's narratives and then see
> the possible categories - harder to do with my own writing. Perhaps this
> list needs a summariser or moderator to take charge of the labelling - a
> bit like the e-moderating in online courses? My concern is that having
> to label or classify up front feels to me like an inerruption in the
> conversation.  It's made me hesitate to write too often.
>
> The plants are an interesting analogy - in the UK I am surrounded by
> totally unfamiliar plants, trees and birds - and I am used to walking
> around at home in South Africa and knowing all the names.  Here I know
> almost none - but I find myself standing at garden gates and on the edge
> of fields in awe of the beauty despite the lack of labels and categories
> ;-))  To me it has a parallel in how qualitative research contrasts with
> quantitative. There is so much reflection and immersion to do before the
> threads of meaning begin to cluster into more identifiable patterns.  So
> while I am not saying that either approach needs to be foregrounded I do
> think that emails that generate narratives are more like spoken
> conversation while building a list is a different type of task.
>
> ---p@ c
>
>> Dear Lina
>>
>> Surely a list is usefully reductionist in the sense that it leads into
>
>> generalisations and classifications.  Without these, we would have no
>> way of organising our knowledge. Of course the narratives are where
>> the lists, or generalisations, or classifiecations, are grounded.  But
>
>> I can't wsee how either could be more valuable than the other. Imagine
>
>> not having classified lists of plants.
>>
>> Your final comments on your Italian learning fit under various items
>> in the list we are building up.
>>
>> Anita
>>
>> At 12:41 02/09/2007, Lina.fajerman wrote:
>>> I too am torn between what I feel is the reductionism of a list and
>>> the complexity of unravelling a narrative. I think the two need to be
>>> seen/explored side by side. I have been very moved, impressed and
>>> delighted by all the stories that have unfolded here. It has made me
>>> think again about my own experience of learning which is a good thing.
>>>
>>> A year ago  my husband and I decided that we needed to learn Italian
>>> as we have visited that country on several occasions and have become
>>> increasingly embarrassed by our inability to communicate on even a
>>> basic level. Neither of us has any linguistic talent. I last learnt
>>> French almost 40 years ago and my husband did Latin. I remember that
>>> at school I had to work very hard as I have never had a particularly
>>> good memory for recalling facts or lists of vocabulary.
>>>
>>> We attended an adult education institute and joined a very pleasant
>>> group of older learners (almost all over 60) doing a day time course.
>>> It made a difference to me that we were all struggling together. Our
>>> tutor was enourmously patient and encouraging but I found that we were
>
>>> learning in a formal way (rather like in my school days with a bit
>>> more listening and speaking) and while I liked that as it was a
>>> familiar way of learning I felt that it was not helping me to
>>> understand or communicate well enough. I rented an excellent language
>>> CD from our local library and whenever we were able to, we would
>>> listen to one of the lessions which were all entirely oral. This
>>> supplemented the excellent tuition we had received in the college
>>> course. When we went to Italy recently we thought we were now ignorant
>
>>> on a much higher level! We have enrolled for a further course.
>>>
>>> It is significant evidence of the lack of interest that the UK govt
>>> places on adult learning, that funding for such courses has been cut
>>> and so no more delightful local day class. We are travelling into
>>> London to attend a day class there.
>>>
>>> The point I am making is that as an older learner I am more aware than
>
>>> I was as a young person what works for me as a learner;  I am able to
>>> look for ways to meet my personal learning needs;  I can use multiple
>>> approaches where necessary and I have the confidence to do so.
>>>
>>
>
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-- 
Betsy Bowerman, Mature Students' Adviser
Widening Participation and Undergraduate Recruitment
Tel:  0117 954 5937