what a wonderful way to almost end a Friday
thank you
Frances Hendrix
Martin House Farm, Hilltop Lane, Whittle le Woods, Chorley, Lancs PR6 7QR, 
UK
tel: 01257 274 833.  fax: 01257 266 488
email: [log in to unmask]
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Issler" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: fines:secrets and lies or shadow boxing?


> If a charge for the late return of a book is levied on a flamboyant
> individual might this be termed fine and dandy?
>
>
> Alan Issler
> Neighbourhood and Enterprise Manager
> Brighton & Hove City Libraries
> Jubilee Library
> Jubilee Street,
> Brighton BN1 1GE
> tel:01273-296948
> mob: 07795336492
> fax:01273-296976
> 'e' mail: [log in to unmask]
> website: www.citylibraries.info
>
>
>
>                      Williams Alun H DAT/DGO
>                      <AlunHughesWilliams@GWYN        To: 
> [log in to unmask]@SMTP@Exchange
>                      EDD.GOV.UK>                     cc:       (bcc: Alan 
> Issler/CR/HTH/BHC)
>                      Sent by: "lis-pub-libs:         Subject:  Re: 
> fines:secrets and lies or shadow boxing?
>                      UK Public Libraries"
>                      <[log in to unmask]
>                      C.UK>
>
>
>                      15/08/2008 15:11
>                      Please respond to
>                      Williams Alun H DAT/DGO
>                      <AlunHughesWilliams@GWYN
>                      EDD.GOV.UK>
>
>
>
>
>
> "We need libraries to be 'judged' by a set of  standards NOT related to 
> the
> simple issue of books"
>
> Couldn't agree more. It's high time we were freed from the tyranny of 
> issue
> (whether or not that includes renewal) statistics.
>
> This reliance on stats has a mendacious effect on the public library
> service. Because of the reliance on statistics, some librarians will feel
> the need to buy books which are LIKELY to be borrowed on a large scale; at
> the expense of quality. So, you end up with libraries where "classic
> literature" (good, edifying, vocabulary-enhancing stuff) merits a
> five-shelf
> column to itself, surrounded by tons of pulp-fiction (which is expected to
> fly off the shelves).
>
> Does that mean, perhaps, that we as librarians are more concerned with
> keeping ourselves busy than with offering the public a taste of something
> loftier than the everyday run of things?
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Alun
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> ]
> On Behalf Of Frances Hendrix
> Sent: 15 August 2008 14:04
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: fines:secrets and lies or shadow boxing?
>
> But if one borrower has an item for a long period (and I don't see a
> problem
>
> with that if there isn't a waiting list), how is that indicative of
> effective performance of stock?. You have of course satisfied one borrower
> very much, but it is hardly an indication  of the performance of the stock
> is it?
>
> Surely issue figures relate to one book to one borrower on one occasion,
> not
>
> multiple occasions if it is renewed by the same person.
>
> I do think this all needs to be bottomed out, but I can see the risks if
> everyone now decides to come clean on why charge fines, and why massage
> issue figures. We need libraries to be 'judged' by a set of  standards NOT
> related to the simple issue of books. remember the Laser work done by PwC
> on
>
> Output measures, much more sophisticated and worth doing.
>
> Now we are bandying figures and comments about without the help of hard
> evidence (and I don't mean the now suspect issue figures).
>
> f, well make a guess!
> Frances Hendrix
> Martin House Farm, Hilltop Lane, Whittle le Woods, Chorley, Lancs PR6 7QR,
> UK
> tel: 01257 274 833.  fax: 01257 266 488
> email: [log in to unmask]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Day Robert" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: fines:secrets and lies or shadow boxing?
>
>
> It's only misleading if the initial assumption is that issue figures do 
> NOT
> contain renewals and given that all authorities report performance data to
> the same body subject to the same criteria I don't believe this to be the
> case. Is any authority really claiming that renewals are new issues to a
> different borrower?
>
> I think you can make a good case that it shouldn't happen and that 
> renewals
> should count separately from issues or, in some other way, be able to
> calculate issues to unique borrowers. On the other hand, regardless of
> whether it be an issue or renewal it means that the item in question is in
> use and thus when looking at the effective performance of a stock item 
> both
> need to be taken into account. Historically I imagine there was also a 
> case
> to be made that renewals occupied as much staff time as a new issue and
> thus
>
> needed to be recorded similarly - this is much less so now with the
> facility
>
> for customers to either use the web OPAC and/or use automatd telephone
> renewal systems.
>
> Finally, I have to ask since it's been puzzling me but just what is the
> lower case 'f' all about?
>
> Regards
>
> Robert Day
> Cambridgeshire Libraries, UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Frances Hendrix
> Sent: 15 August 2008 08:58
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: fines:secrets and lies or shadow boxing?
>
>
> Well if a renewal by the same person is counted as a new issue to a
> different borrower, that is misleading. There has been an indication of
> this
> in the responses. off line there have been far more worrying trends
> mentioned that inflate or massage the figures of use etc which have been
> happening for many many years, and quite honestly astonishes and
> disappoints
> me. I know we live in a  number crunching world (but these practices seemt
> o
> pre date that),where performance tick box data is the norm, but I just
> thought libraries were different and better.
>
> It would appear my 'thought out of the blue' was correct.
>
> I look forward to reading your thoughts and comments in the Guardian.
> f
> Frances Hendrix
> Martin House Farm, Hilltop Lane, Whittle le Woods, Chorley, Lancs PR6 7QR,
> UK
> tel: 01257 274 833.  fax: 01257 266 488
> email: [log in to unmask]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Loz Pycock" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:17 PM
> Subject: Re: fines:secrets and lies or shadow boxing?
>
>
>> Frances Hendrix wrote:
>>> Just had a thought.
>>>  Have the statistics on lending been skewed for years? If every renewal
>>> of a book (maybe even to avoid fines), has been counted by public
>>> libraries as a new loan and a new borrower, hasn't it been a case of
>>> misleading information?
>>>
>> Please could you explain why you think it's misleading?
>>
>> --
>> - --
>> Loz
>>
>> "Dora The Explorer tastes like brain damage."
>> - http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20070803.html
>> "I support gay marriage because I believe they have a right to be just
>> as miserable as the rest of us." - Kinky Friedman
>>
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