Hi Everyone
Most places take 4.3 to mean a low counter overall. I agree, it is quite
back-breaking for ANYone to utilise this especially if there is hand-writing
to do!!! With regards Libraries, the public are encouraged to watch the
computer when their details are fed in to make sure they are correct and for
them to see what books etc. are still outstanding/overdue. Staff are
trained then to return the computer screen to the general index.Therefore,
there is no special reason for having a high counter in order to house the
computer!
Liz East
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunt, Alan" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] Reception counters and Part M
> Thanks Vin...... have waved the DE duty at them and I really can't
> understand why they are being so negative about this......
> The design originally proposed was a very elegant bow shaped counter 700mm
> wide x 760 high with curved sections 300mm wide at a higher level (1m
> high)
> at each side with space beneath. The reason for the raised sections to
> both
> sides as opposed to one side only is that one side is the library counter
> and the other is the tourist info counter.
> I have only just become involved with this issue recently. The project
> coordinator for the scheme (who has shadowed me for some time in order to
> become more aware of access issues, inclusive design etc.) brought the
> original design to me last week for comment. I suggested that there should
> be provision for tall people or people who couldn't stoop or bend and the
> interior designers subsequently came up with a counter which looked
> elegant
> and was fit for purpose. The library service has rejected this idea as
> stated previously....... I am not finished with them yet and am determined
> that they see sense on this.......
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Vin
> Sent: 26 August 2008 15:23
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
>
> TEST
>
> I'm copying what I sent earlier as my mails do not
> seem to be getting through to Accessibuilt:
>
> Hi Alan,
> have you tried waving the DE Duty at them (tall
> people with immobile spines may equally consider
> themsleves as disabled persons needing a standing
> height counter).
> The intro to Section 4 of Part M states:
> "4.1 The aim is for all people to have access and
> use of all the facilities provided within
> buildings."
> It is I agree unhelpful that 4.3 then could be
> taken to read that a single (low) height can be
> used for counters, when this would clearly not meet
> the needs of all people. But then Part M is not
> intended as a prescriptive design guide and people
> are at liberty to meet the requirement (in this
> case simply "access for all") in any way they want
> and justify it with an Access Statement, but I
> don't see how they could get away with deliberately
> excluding anyone who needs a standing height
> counter on aesthetic grounds!?
> I also don't see how they can refuse to comply with
> BS 8300 when Part M directs people to use it as
> guidance more than 20 times and part 11.1.6 of BS
> 8300 as you say tells people clearly that there
> must be two working heights to counters.
> My guess is that they are thinking that a tall
> standing person cannot be a disabled person and
> therefore only the low counter is needed to comply
> with disability discrimination legislation but they
> are simply wrong!!
>
> Vin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bracewell, Robert"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
>
>
> I think it is semantics gone wrong (not having a
> good day here), as my
> reading of the section makes it perfectly clear
> that the lower height is
> to include seated people - not make it a standard
> height for both! With
> good design they could accomplish this without it
> being obvious that
> they've made the counter 'accessible to
> regulation', just a desk that
> can be used by all.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rob Bracewell BA (Hons)
> Access Officer,
> Forward Planning Team,
> Planning Services,
> Lancaster City Council,
> Palatine Hall,
> Dalton Square,
> Lancaster,
> LA1 1PW
> Tel. & Minicom. 01524 582372 (please use announcer)
> Fax. 01524 582322
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan Loveless
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 26 August 2008 14:30
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] Reception counters and
> Part M
>
> Hi Alan
> This seems like a mean interpretation of Part M and
> I'm sure, not the
> intention! I would guess the authors just omitted
> the height for
> standing because they wanted to be clear about the
> measurements for the
> lower section and didn't think they needed to say
> what height a higher
> section would be.
> Do they really think that 760 is a good height for
> people standing?!
> It's great for shorter people and young children,
> but not for everyone.
> I wonder if you have the time to involve some local
> disabled people in
> the discussion/testing, as this would add weight to
> your argument.
>
> Bests
> Jan
> Jan Loveless
> Access Matters UK
> 35 Cross Street
> Canterbury
> CT2 8AT
> Tel: 01227 764411
> www.access-mattersuk.co.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Hunt, Alan
> Sent: 26 August 2008 13:33
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
>
> That's what I though initially but upon closer
> reading unfortunately
> this can also be interpreted that by adhering to
> these dimensions you
> are accommodating both standing and seated
> visitors. Our building
> control section also sees it this way
> unfortunately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Alyson Matthews
> Sent: 26 August 2008 13:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
>
> Part M 3.6 states:
> "An entrance hall and reception area will satisfy
> Requirment M1 or M2
> if:
>
> e) any reception desk or counter is designed to
> accommodate both
> standing and seated visitors such that at least one
> section of the
> counter is at least 1500mm wide, with its surface
> no higher than 760mm,
> and a knee recess, not less than 700mm, above floor
> level."
>
> So it is quite explicit that both seated and
> standing visitors should be
> accommodated.
>
> ----------End of Message----------
> Run by SURFACE for more information on research,
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