Thanks Vin...... have waved the DE duty at them and I really can't
understand why they are being so negative about this......
The design originally proposed was a very elegant bow shaped counter 700mm
wide x 760 high with curved sections 300mm wide at a higher level (1m high)
at each side with space beneath. The reason for the raised sections to both
sides as opposed to one side only is that one side is the library counter
and the other is the tourist info counter.
I have only just become involved with this issue recently. The project
coordinator for the scheme (who has shadowed me for some time in order to
become more aware of access issues, inclusive design etc.) brought the
original design to me last week for comment. I suggested that there should
be provision for tall people or people who couldn't stoop or bend and the
interior designers subsequently came up with a counter which looked elegant
and was fit for purpose. The library service has rejected this idea as
stated previously....... I am not finished with them yet and am determined
that they see sense on this.......
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Vin
Sent: 26 August 2008 15:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
TEST
I'm copying what I sent earlier as my mails do not
seem to be getting through to Accessibuilt:
Hi Alan,
have you tried waving the DE Duty at them (tall
people with immobile spines may equally consider
themsleves as disabled persons needing a standing
height counter).
The intro to Section 4 of Part M states:
"4.1 The aim is for all people to have access and
use of all the facilities provided within
buildings."
It is I agree unhelpful that 4.3 then could be
taken to read that a single (low) height can be
used for counters, when this would clearly not meet
the needs of all people. But then Part M is not
intended as a prescriptive design guide and people
are at liberty to meet the requirement (in this
case simply "access for all") in any way they want
and justify it with an Access Statement, but I
don't see how they could get away with deliberately
excluding anyone who needs a standing height
counter on aesthetic grounds!?
I also don't see how they can refuse to comply with
BS 8300 when Part M directs people to use it as
guidance more than 20 times and part 11.1.6 of BS
8300 as you say tells people clearly that there
must be two working heights to counters.
My guess is that they are thinking that a tall
standing person cannot be a disabled person and
therefore only the low counter is needed to comply
with disability discrimination legislation but they
are simply wrong!!
Vin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bracewell, Robert"
<[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
I think it is semantics gone wrong (not having a
good day here), as my
reading of the section makes it perfectly clear
that the lower height is
to include seated people - not make it a standard
height for both! With
good design they could accomplish this without it
being obvious that
they've made the counter 'accessible to
regulation', just a desk that
can be used by all.
Rob
_______________________________________________
Rob Bracewell BA (Hons)
Access Officer,
Forward Planning Team,
Planning Services,
Lancaster City Council,
Palatine Hall,
Dalton Square,
Lancaster,
LA1 1PW
Tel. & Minicom. 01524 582372 (please use announcer)
Fax. 01524 582322
-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Loveless
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 August 2008 14:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] Reception counters and
Part M
Hi Alan
This seems like a mean interpretation of Part M and
I'm sure, not the
intention! I would guess the authors just omitted
the height for
standing because they wanted to be clear about the
measurements for the
lower section and didn't think they needed to say
what height a higher
section would be.
Do they really think that 760 is a good height for
people standing?!
It's great for shorter people and young children,
but not for everyone.
I wonder if you have the time to involve some local
disabled people in
the discussion/testing, as this would add weight to
your argument.
Bests
Jan
Jan Loveless
Access Matters UK
35 Cross Street
Canterbury
CT2 8AT
Tel: 01227 764411
www.access-mattersuk.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Accessibuilt list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Hunt, Alan
Sent: 26 August 2008 13:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
That's what I though initially but upon closer
reading unfortunately
this can also be interpreted that by adhering to
these dimensions you
are accommodating both standing and seated
visitors. Our building
control section also sees it this way
unfortunately.
-----Original Message-----
From: Accessibuilt list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Alyson Matthews
Sent: 26 August 2008 13:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reception counters and Part M
Part M 3.6 states:
"An entrance hall and reception area will satisfy
Requirment M1 or M2
if:
e) any reception desk or counter is designed to
accommodate both
standing and seated visitors such that at least one
section of the
counter is at least 1500mm wide, with its surface
no higher than 760mm,
and a knee recess, not less than 700mm, above floor
level."
So it is quite explicit that both seated and
standing visitors should be
accommodated.
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