medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Interesting discussion of St. Vibiana and her relics. (Another
complication was that she was martyred with others, not buried for a
while although not bothered by dogs who knows...) she may also have been
laid to rest with others. She was stabbed I believe so one should look
for forensic evidence as well...
Although as one knows from reading Chaucer and others that relics can be
anything, any one.....
The fun part of relics is that each one of them has a story to follow. A
loose end perhaps that needs to be followed till it runs out for the
moment and then watched over in case it surfaces again.
The story of history is the story of loose ends to follow- the wonder of
it all.
As to the real saint....just one goal of the quest along with many. So
lets see where these loose ends lead.
I have worked with the stories of the relics of St. Brigid of Kildare-
she is quite scattered. Wild- one day a video of the shrine of her head
turned up on Youtube....who knows where the quest will lead and it does
not matter just so we gather up the threads and give them a home.
Conrad
MAUREEN A TILLEY wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> The only claim about the bones of St. Vibiana I ever heard or read
> before the entombment of the relics in the new cathedral in LA was
> that the wax effigy displayed in the old cathedral contained only
> three bones or fragments of bones (part/all of the sternum, a fragment
> of an arm bone, and some of the skull) . That would leave a lot of
> potential relic material for the rest of the world. According to
> Palladio's Rome, two guidebooks translated by Vaughn Hart and Peter
> Hicks, Book #2, p. 24, the head of Vibiana was in Santa Maria
> Maggiore. The guidebook was originally published in 1554. This would
> seem to clash with the story of Bishop Amat being a witness to the
> discovery of the relics in nineteenth century. See the Google Books
> copy of the book at
> http://books.google.com/books?id=XKfJiP7ePu4C&printsec=titlepage&dq=relics+st.+vibiana&source=gbs_toc_s&cad=1#PPR3,M1
> <http://books.google.com/books?id=XKfJiP7ePu4C&printsec=titlepage&dq=relics+st.+vibiana&source=gbs_toc_s&cad=1#PPR3,M1>
> The Archdiocese of Los Angeles page on the relics of Vibiana
> http://www.archdiocese.la/about/heritage/vibiana.html claims that Pius
> IX entrusted to Bishop Amat the body, a vial of blood and the catacomb
> inscription from her grave. A photo of the old reliquary:
> http://guardduty.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/theme-st-vibiana-dishonored/
> and of the new tomb
> http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6740574
> <http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6740574> For
> another relic of Vibiana, see
> http://www.ichrusa.com/saintsalive/crosses.htm
> For a similar story on a broken catacomb inscription of a virgin
> martyr otherwise unknown and her relics, see my article "Philomena,
> Saint, Legend of" in New Catholic Encyclopedia, 2nd ed.
> Maureen A. Tilley
> Visiting Professor of Theology
> Fordham University
> 113 W. 60th Street
> New York, NY 10023
> 212-636-6369
>
> -----medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture <[log in to unmask]> wrote: -----
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> From: Ms B M Cook <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religious culture <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 07/05/2008 02:27PM
> Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day July 3
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
> Yes, but the human body has more than one bone in it! (Someone
> clever will tell us all how many!) Have you seen the bones ? Does
> LA have an ENTIRE skeleton or only *some* bones ? Certainly in the
> MA skellies were disarticulated and relics sent to different
> places. If a church has "the relics" of St X it does not follow
> that they have the WHOLE of St X. Portions may be retained by the
> donor church or donated elsewhere.
> And not just the MA
> A few years back, the (Anglican) cathedral of St Albans aka St
> Albans Abbey where the mediaeval Shrine of St Alban has been
> lovingly restored, were sent (IIRC) a scapula from the skelly
> which is claimed to be St Alban's by St Panteleon's (Roman
> Catholic) church in Koln as a friendly gift. The Anglican High
> Church faction in St Albans were thrilled ( a lovely, ecumenical
> gesture); the Protestant Evangelical wing averted their faces in
> considerable embarrassment (popish abominations !!!) . The Church
> of England (used to be able to ?) take both viewpoints in her
> stride. But BOTH St Albans and St Panteleon's can claim to "have
> the relics of Saint Alban."
> The history of the whereabouts of Saint Alban's bones is a complex
> and multi-faceted one, but it would NOT be impossible that the
> bones which were in the mediaeval shrine at St Albans at the time
> of the Reformation were smuggled to St Panteleon's in some
> recusant's baggage to join the rest of the skelly which had been
> there since the days of the Empress Theophanou; and the skelly
> which Henry VIII ceremoniously trashed was that of a stray tramp
> substituted for just that purpose. The monks had plenty of
> warning: St Albans was almost the last abbey to be dissolved.
> The point I am making is that the word "relics" can just as easily
> refer to one or more bones as to a complete skeleton. It is a case
> of the part representing the whole.
> See you at Leeds anyone ?
> Brenda.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marjorie Schulenburg <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 5:12 PM
> Subject: [M-R] saints of the day July 3
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and culture
>
> Sorry for the mistake. It should look like this.
>
> The discussion of Leo II under today’s saints mentions the
>
> church of Santa Bibiana which he restored and offers several
>
> excellent photos of today’s church. Outside sources on the
> church of
>
> Santa Bibiana in Rome claim, interestingly, that her relics
> are situated
>
> under the altar with those of her mother and sister; however,
>
> St. Vibiana’s in Los Angeles also claimed to have Vibiana
> (Bibiana’s)
>
> relics (a papal gift)] and at one point displayed them above
> the main
>
> altar. Now they are relegated to the crypt chapel of Our Lady
> of Angels
>
> Cathedral in LA. An interesting discrepancy. According to my
> Catholic
>
> sources, there is only one saint.
>
> Marjorie Schulenburg
>
> http://www.cathedralsofcalifornia.com/?tag=st-vibiana
> <http://www.cathedralsofcalifornia.com/?tag=st-vibiana>
>
> **********************************************************************
> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion
> YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the
> list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave
> the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to:
> [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to
> contact the list's owners, write to:
> [log in to unmask] For further
> information, visit our web site:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>
> **********************************************************************
> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR
> NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list,
> address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list,
> send the message: leave medieval-religion to:
> [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact
> the list's owners, write to:
> [log in to unmask] For further information,
> visit our web site:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it
> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the
> message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order
> to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> [log in to unmask] For further information,
> visit our web site:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|