One important consideration with acetate buffer is volatility. All the
care in the world to painstakingly reproduce the pH of the buffer will
not help you if store your acetate buffer for long periods of time in
a container that doesn't minimize evaporation (so all of you out there
trying to reproduce an acetate buffered condition from a commercial
crystallization screen that was stored in plastic 15-ml tubes, beware!).
Diana
On Jul 23, 2008, at 10:26 AM, Nadir T. Mrabet wrote:
> Michael's comments are correct and follow indeed appropriate
> chemistry theory.
> In practice however, as said earlier, it is less likely to read a
> correct pH value with a pH-meter (unless extensive care and
> adjustments are taken beforehand) than to predict amounts of acid
> and base to use reliably based on the HH equation.
>
> I take this opportunity to correct my mistyping in my previous mail:
> "In the second case, the HH is written 4.5 = 4.76 + log([NaOH])/(25
> - [NaOH])"
> should be rewritten into "In the second case, the HH is written 4.5
> = 4.76 + log([NaOH]/(25 - [NaOH]))".
>
> Greetings,
>
> Nadir
>
> --
>
> Pr. Nadir T. Mrabet
> Cellular & Molecular Biochemistry
> INSERM U-724
> Nancy University, School of Medicine
> 9, Avenue de la Foret de Haye, BP 184
> 54505 Vandoeuvre-les-Nancy Cedex
> France
> Phone: +33 (0)3.83.68.32.73
> Fax: +33 (0)3.83.68.32.79
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> R.M. Garavito wrote:
>>
>> Buffer making is very much an empirical process, but there is a
>> comment that needs to be made about the use of the H-H equation and
>> pKa values. I have to teach our department's biochemistry
>> laboratory, and I sadly would have to take off points from all the
>> discussions as the H-H equation and pKa won't give the right answer
>> as pKa is for an ideal (i.e., infinitely dilute) solution. A 25 mM
>> Na acetate solution is not dilute. You need to use the pKa' which
>> sadly changes as the concentration of the buffer increases or
>> decreases: while the pKa of acetic acid is 4.76 (@25˚C), at 100mM,
>> the pKa' is 4.60. The National Bureau of Standards (now NIST) has a
>> detailed list of standard buffer recipes and pKa' values for most
>> of the common buffers (e.g., see Bates, J. Natl. Bur. Stand. 66A,
>> 179, 1962).
>>
>> That said, Nadir's method is a fine way to make a buffer of a known
>> pH (using a well calibrated pH meter) at a known temperature, and
>> it will allow you to make a buffer with the same pH value almost
>> every time (depending on how your room temperature changes
>> throughout the year). Being able to consistently and reliably
>> repeat the buffer formulation is the most important point.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> /****************************************************************/
>>
>> /R. Michael Garavito, Ph.D./
>>
>> /Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology/
>>
>> /513 Biochemistry Bldg. /
>>
>> /Michigan State University /
>>
>> /East Lansing, MI 48824-1319/
>>
>> /Office:// //(517) 355-9724 Lab: (517) 353-9125/
>>
>> /FAX: (517) 353-9334 Email: [log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>/
>>
>> /****************************************************************/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Nadir T. Mrabet wrote:
>>
>>> I bet it is more difficult to adjust a pH-meter than to use the
>>> Henderson-Hasselbalch equation
>>> and still get the expected pH with a pretty good accuracy
>>> especially if your work near the pKa.
>>>
>>> There are actually two ways to prepare this 25 mM buffer, pH 4.5.
>>>
>>> The pKa of acetate is 4.76 at 25 °C (with dpKa/° C = +0.0002, so
>>> don't worry too much about this).
>>> Reference is "Buffers for pH and Metal Ion Control", Perrin &
>>> Dempsey, Chapman & Hall, NY, ISBN 0 412 21890 9.
>>>
>>> High-grade glacial acetic acid (99-100%) is 18 N.
>>> Make a stock solution of 250 mM (eg 3.472 mL for 1.0 L final).
>>> Keep is a dark, tightly closed bottle.
>>>
>>> Make a stock solution of 250 mM sodium acetate (if you use FW, not
>>> MW, to calculate mass to use, then no worry about anhydrous or not
>>> since water is also taken into account if present)
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> make a stock solution of 5N NaOH. Keep is a dark, tightly closed
>>> bottle.
>>>
>>> Use then the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation (HH), pH = pKa + log
>>> ([A-]/[AH]).
>>>
>>> In the first case, you write it : 4.5 = 4.76 + log ([sodium
>>> acetate]/[acetic acid])
>>> Second equation is [sodium acetate] + [acetic acid] = 25 mM
>>> which gives [sodium acetate] = 8.886 mM and [acetic acid] = 16.134
>>> mM.
>>> For 1.0 L buffer, mix adequate volumes of stock solutions of
>>> sodium acetate and acetic acid and complete with water (add acid
>>> after un first fill with water to ~ 800 mL).
>>>
>>> In the second case, the HH is written 4.5 = 4.76 + log([NaOH])/(25
>>> - [NaOH]),
>>> which gives [NaOH] = 8.886 mM (same result as above for sodium
>>> acetate which was then the base).
>>>
>>> The added advantage of using HH and stock solutions is that even
>>> if your pH is not exactly 4.5, say 4.55, if you make a new buffer
>>> the next day or even the next month,
>>> your buffer will have the same pH value. I don't expect you can
>>> ever achieve such a repeatability using a pH-meter.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Nadir Mrabet
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Pr. Nadir T. Mrabet
>>> Cellular & Molecular Biochemistry
>>> INSERM U-724
>>> Nancy University, School of Medicine
>>> 9, Avenue de la Foret de Haye, BP 184
>>> 54505 Vandoeuvre-les-Nancy Cedex
>>> France
>>> Phone: +33 (0)3.83.68.32.73
>>> Fax: +33 (0)3.83.68.32.79
>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> William G. Scott wrote:
>>>> So what, then, will be the concentration of the acetate ion in
>>>> your stock solution when you have finished?
>>>>
>>>> (Disclaimer: I get to teach this stuff periodically in remedial
>>>> chemistry as a punishment for deployment of excessive sarcasm
>>>> during faculty meetings.)
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2008, at 6:10 AM, Santosh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Make a 1M Na-Acetate do not make up to the 1 Ltr volume. Leave
>>>>> some extra
>>>>> volume and now start adding Acetic acid till you get pH 4.5
>>>>> (Glacial Acetic
>>>>> Acid).
>>>>> Now make up the volume to 1ltr or how much ever you are deciding
>>>>> to make the
>>>>> 50X stock solution.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Santosh
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:20 PM, William G. Scott <
>>>>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a job for the trusty Henderson-Hasselbalch equation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henderson-Hasselbalch_equation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2008, at 8:12 PM, Meg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to prepare 25 mM sodium acetate buffer pH 4.5. can
>>>>>>> anyone give the
>>>>>>> exact composition of how to prepare it. we prepare it using
>>>>>>> sodium acetate
>>>>>>> and acetic acid combination. i am not able to arrive at the
>>>>>>> calculatation
>>>>>>> correctly, so if anyone can explain me with the above buffer
>>>>>>> how to
>>>>>>> calculate. and what sodium acetate [Anhydrous / trihydrate]
>>>>>>> and acetic
>>>>>>> acid
>>>>>>> [glacial/ plain] to use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks n regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meg goyal,
>>>>>>> M.SC Biotechnology [Research]
>>>>>>> Institute of science,
>>>>>>> Fort
>>>>>>> Mumbai, INDIA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: [log in to unmask]
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)
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