hi Grant, thanks for that, my replies below prefixed by && for clarity

thanks
Dave E

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Grant Potts" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 4:43 PM
Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Archives (Was OTO legal case/ Scientology & 
Copyright)


> Dave,
>
> The Yorke collection is available on microfilm (at least much of it)
&& there is a massive amount of books that are *not* on the film, since 
Yorke gave a lot of other material over along with his Crowley letters

 in
> several libraries in the United States, and at least one lodge makes it 
> available to any serious researcher for a small usage fee.
>
> http://sekhetmaat.com/wiki/Library
>
> I helped set up the policies for the usage of the archive.
&& then you are due gratitude by many a researcher, including this one!

During those discussions, we specifically identified that any serious 
researcher,
> whether they were connected to OTO or not, should have access, but that we 
> were going to charge a small fee to help with future acquisitions and 
> development of the library.  You can access the microfilm for free, 
> though, here in Austin at the Ransom Center.  I understand that OTO was 
> instrumental in negotiating the microfilming and  in gaining the deposit 
> off this microfilm at the Ransom center.
>
> The restrictions you list may be from the Warburg library, and not as a 
> result of OTO--I'm not sure--I was given the impression it was the former, 
> but I don't think the people who were informing me knew for sure either. 
> I know when we were discussing access to the microfilm archive, we had 
> restrictions to consider that came from the Warburg.

&& indeed, the Warburg in general is hard-ish to get into, but the Yorke 
material especially is very hard to approach, and often access permission 
seems arbitrary- for example i had (after a lot of negotiation) a grant of 
some limited access when i was a mere MA student (since my MA was 
specifically about Crowley), which is contrary to the W's rules, but a 
fellow researcher who was a PhD candidate was denied entry, when doctoral 
students should be allowed in, according to the same rules ..... which is 
simply nonsense.... when i arrived at the W i gave over my bona fides, 
showed my ID and was directed to the inner sanctum, and the rather 
highly-strung librarian on duty took one look at my letter of introduction 
(and me- i had very long hair back then) and all-but bellowed "you can't see 
the Tarot Cards you know!" ..... to which i replied, calmly and politely, 
that i didn't want to see or touch any cards, here was my list of documents 
i'd ideally want to see, i had no preference in the order in which they were 
retreieved from the document store, i had my own cotton archive gloves with 
me and where should i sit to wait?..... it was quite a surreal day.....
>
> Unfortunately, the restrictions you face are not atypical of many archival 
> collections.  I have a colleague who went to use the Derrida archives in 
> California, and faced many issues accessing the materials--and I had 
> similar problems when I went to use the William S. Burroughs archives at 
> Arizona State--without a letter from my Dean, I just couldn't get access 
> to the most precious materials.  Since my research was purely personal at 
> that point, I was unable to do much except look at some out of print books 
> I hadn't been able to spend much time with outside the archive, but that I 
> probably could have tracked down through interlibrary loan if I had wanted 
> to.  And although I've never used British archives, I've been told they 
> are often worse then American archives.  I know people have singled out in 
> conversations with me the Warburg for being particularly fickle with their 
> materials.
>
> The Ransom archive here in Austin is *extremely* easy to access.  You have 
> to watch a film on proper use of archival materials, identify your purpose 
> for research, and sign a paper.  It's more comprised of manuscripts, and 
> has very little specifically OTO related materials, but it does have a few 
> gems (so, if you ever want to come to Texas to use it, let me know and I'd 
> be delighted to show you around town).

&& thanks!

  I think  the Ransom archive is also a gem for their commitment to giving 
access
> to the materials to the public.  I think this, in part, comes from being 
> part of a large State school with a very explicit mission of providing 
> educational resources to the public.  I know if I had extra money to give 
> to an institution, they would be at the top of my list of places to donate 
> that money.
>
> Anyway, my point was not that this material is not hard to get at.  My 
> point is that, at least from the observations I have been able to make, 
> OTO seems more interested in providing scholarly and journalistic access 
> to materials than restricting it, like Scientology does (the original 
> point of comparison).  This just doesn't seem to gel with the claims that 
> OTO's claim on its trademarks is about silencing others or restricting 
> access to materials, a point that has been put out there on the list so 
> far (primarily through insinuation).
> Dave, do you have reason to believe that the restrictions you faced at 
> Warburg were put in place by OTO or its leadership, or are they more 
> likely restrictions placed by the archive itself?

&& i would say (my opinion only) 95% plus is down to the Warburg (who i 
beleive are simply embarassed by having been left the collection by Gerald 
Yorke and have never really come to terms with how they should handle it, 
which is a shame given their other and huge library of esoteric books), but 
something that does rankle with me is that the Yorke material includes a lot 
of Crowley items that relate to his Golden Dawn membership, and his early 
life - ie before he ever came near the OTO, but that the OTO appear to have 
copyright over the material en masse

dave e
>