all of these have very close resonations with my own writing-feelings as
well! quite interesting. :)
recently I was talking with a good (new) friend of mine about writing in
general, which I NEVER do nor usually feel like doing, and when I started
going into the ideas & emotions I have about/towards nature in poetry I
realised it started to sound like something out of Wordsworth -- (in today's
context at least): inflated & indulgent. it made me re-realise the power of
written words over spoken ones -- there tends to be less need for
simplification or rationalisation in writing, because it's such a huge
opportunity for rhetoric -- but it also made me think about nature poetry,
my own mainly. how to make it stand out? and how to make it natural, with a
prose-like touch as Nathan mentioned, and with an unstated emphasis on the
human element rather than on the subjects being portrayed & reinvented; I've
recently put into mental words a longstanding understanding that nature
poetry is always about people, more strongly so in a way than poetry that
doesn't look to flora & fauna for its imagery & inspiration. it's heöping me
let my poetry evolve, I hope. slowly.
KS
2008/6/8 Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]>:
> Dave, I agree with Andrew. There's alot in that paragraph for me to think
> over. I've been struggling with my poetry lately, probably because I'm
> finally turning a sufficient amount of time towards it. I'm feeling quite
> detached from it really. I've been spending so much time with prose over
> the
> last year my sense of poetic language has been dulled.
> This is my difficulty (everyone's I suppose, but my own also): I want to
> write with a sense of coherence that can be found in prose, but without the
> restraint it demands. I want to be able to craft original phrases and
> images, but with a considered purpose. Dave, I really appreciate the
> description you've given me of poetic language ascending from the bottom,
> from the constantly moving point. I need to spend more time thinking about
> subject rather than just expression, I suppose. That is what frustrates me
> about J. H. Prynne, to refer to another thread - he's obviously a skilled
> craftsman who can turn a spectacular phrase at times, but to what end? I've
> only read the FACP/Bloodaxe collection of his work, and whenever I pick it
> up, I struggle to find a poem that I understand to any kind of visceral
> depth.
>
> I'll throw myself into a solid week of poetry, I think, and see what comes
> of it.
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 5:52 PM, andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > a well stated and very interesting statement of poetics, Dave. Thanks.
> > andrew
> >
> > 2008/6/8 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> > > Thanks Nathan
> > >
> > > I don't usually spend a lot of time on writing any individual poem -
> > > that one was about 20 minutes at the most, but I read and re-read, out
> > > loud and silently, my own and others poems a lot, with some of my own
> > > I will fuss over a minor detail for a long time in my head afterwards
> > > before often deciding to change it or not. but the re-reading of
> > > poetry from the 'legacy', that helps a lot, to continually expose
> > > oneself to contradictory influences so one's responses to stuff in
> > > life might be flexible and even imaginative. I like to write from
> > > +inside+ a subject, if I can, to try to act it out in words. After
> > > all, poetry's partly an extension playing 'let's pretends' isn't it?
> > > I like those commentators who are explicate rather than explain poems,
> > > in terms of background and nuance, of where a poem is +coming from+
> > > rather than where it's +at+. I dislike theorists intensely, they just
> > > explain away poetry ultimately and leave you with an empty skull.
> > > Intellect, to paraphrase Geoffrey Hill, is not sufficient law.
> > > I try or am trying to find some internal consistency in myself as well
> > > as my poems! These things could be related! I do find it helpful to
> > > think of poetic language as operating from the 'bottom-up' rather than
> > > 'top-down' and to think about things as being from a constantly moving
> > > imagined point of a graph that is 'I'. After all, all things are in
> > > motion. Or the only points of rest are relative.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your own poetry.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > 2008/6/8 Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > Really liked this one, David. It has an internal consistency that I
> > > admire.
> > > > I'm working on that in my own poems.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:22 AM, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> oh! well Cave certainly does that. :) sorry for the confusion, I was
> > > thrown
> > > >> by Roger's reply.. still am.
> > > >>
> > > >> KS
> > > >>
> > > >> 2008/6/8 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Oh no, kasper, I just meant it was refreshing to see a
> non-literary
> > > >> > comparison in respect of the feuds that bedevil the literary
> scene,
> > > >> > that's all. It was nice to get out of the library for a breath of
> > > >> > fresh air!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2008/6/8 kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > >> > > hatreds past? not sure what you mean. all I did was make a
> passing
> > > >> > comment.
> > > >> > > is Cave a hated man on this list or something?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > KS
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > 2008/6/7 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >> Thank you kasper for that breath of unliterary fresh air. It
> > > sometimes
> > > >> > >> seems there are too many accumulated small demons in libraries,
> I
> > > know
> > > >> > >> they can be warded off but all that remembrance of hatreds past
> > > ...
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> 2008/6/7 kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > >> > >> > great language. such subtle twisting!
> > > >> > >> > this could be a cool Nick Cave song
> > > >> > >> >
> > > >> > >> > KS
> > > >> > >> >
> > > >> > >> > 2008/6/7 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > >> > >> >
> > > >> > >> >> Prospero's Slump
> > > >> > >> >>
> > > >> > >> >> Ah my mad genetic mother
> > > >> > >> >> who drowns the runt unwanted kittens
> > > >> > >> >> downwind of your stinking midden,
> > > >> > >> >> nursingly basting the slaughtered,
> > > >> > >> >> who toythings with tenderness and rhymes,
> > > >> > >> >> dressing dolls in your head-yard,
> > > >> > >> >> telling your jacks your jills but lies, mother,
> > > >> > >> >> all favourites your flowers all weeds.
> > > >> > >> >> The honeybees they're dying, mother,
> > > >> > >> >> the ground work-rate's murder;
> > > >> > >> >> this is the latest of reports from an idiot
> > > >> > >> >> on sporting chances, New Orleans.
> > > >> > >> >>
> > > >> > >> >>
> > > >> > >> >> --
> > > >> > >> >> David Bircumshaw
> > > >> > >> >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > >> > >> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > >> > >> >> The Animal Subsides
> > > >> > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > >> > >> >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > > >> > >> >>
> > > >> > >> >
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> --
> > > >> > >> David Bircumshaw
> > > >> > >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > >> > >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > >> > >> The Animal Subsides
> > > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > >> > >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > David Bircumshaw
> > > >> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > >> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > >> > The Animal Subsides
> > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > >> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://nathanhondros.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Bircumshaw
> > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew
> > http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/aburke/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://nathanhondros.blogspot.com
>
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