JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for CCP4BB Archives


CCP4BB Archives

CCP4BB Archives


CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CCP4BB Home

CCP4BB Home

CCP4BB  June 2008

CCP4BB June 2008

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Friedel vs Bijvoet

From:

Derek Logan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Derek Logan <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:20:16 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

> - When Rontgen discovered a new kind of light, he called it "x- 
> rays".  Now only the Germans call them Rontgen rays.

Thanks for a great essay! Since I have nothing of real value  
contribute here, I won't pass over the opportunity to be a  
"besserwisser" (as the Swedes say, using a borrowed word...) the  
Röntgen moniker has stuck here in northern Europe too: in Swedish:  
Röntgenstrålning, in Danish and Norwegian: Røntgenstråling, in Dutch:  
Röntgenstraling. Also thanks to Wikipedia, I can inform you that it's  
called Röntgengeislun in Icelandic and Röntgensäteily in Finnish.  
Eastern Europe seems to have adopted various forms based on "Rentgen",  
but I won't pretend I knew that before 5 minutes ago ;-)

Derek

>
>
> - When the largest protein ever was discovered, it was called  
> "connectin", but a subsequent paper called it "titin" and the second  
> name has stuck.  I actually can't remember who the "connectin" guy  
> was ...
>
> - When Joseph Fourier discovered that heat radiated from the earth  
> could be reflected back by gasses in the atmosphere, he simply named  
> it by describing it (in French).  Now this is (incorrectly) called  
> the "greenhouse effect".  Why not the Fourier effect?  Fortunately  
> for Fourier, a mathematical series was named after him, although he  
> neither discovered it (Budan did that), nor implemented it (Navier  
> did that).  All Fourier did was present a theorem based on a flawed  
> premise that turned out to be right anyway.
>
> So, I decided to look up Friedel and Bijvoet in the Undisputed  
> Source of All Human Knowledge (wikipedia) and found that Friedel's  
> Law "... is a property of Fourier transforms <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_transform 
> > of real functions."
>
> I am willing to believe that.  And considering this origin I would  
> think it appropriate to call (hkl) and (-h-k-l) a "Friedel pair" (or  
> "Friedel's pair" as it is described in the USAHK).  G. Friedel was  
> indeed a crystallographer, but I doubt he considered more than this  
> simple centrosymmetric property.  Who would care in 1913 which is F+  
> and F-?  The atomic scattering factors had not yet been worked out  
> at that time.  Ewald may have predicted it, but anomalous scattering  
> was not shown to exist until the classic work of Koster, Knol and  
> Prins (1930).  I guess that goes to show that if you want something  
> named after you... keep it at one or two authors.
>
> Perhaps it has to do with the original paper getting old enough that  
> it gets too hard to find.  I'm sure in G. Friedel's paper in 1913 he  
> cited Joseph Fourier's Paper from 1822.  Or did he?  I wonder if  
> they were already calling it a Fourier Transform at that time?
>
> Okay, so what, exactly did Bijvoet do?  Everyone cites his Nature  
> paper (1951), but one thing that I was NOT KIDDING about in my April  
> Fool's joke was that this paper (like so many other high-profile  
> papers) contains almost no information about how to reproduce the  
> results.  I was also not kidding that boring little details like the  
> reasoning behind the conclusion (the hand of the microworld) were  
> relegated to a more obscure journal (the one in the Proc. Royal.  
> Soc. Amsterdam).  I WAS kidding about having found and read that  
> paper.  I have never seen it.  Still, Bijvoet did the first  
> experiment to elucidate the absolute configuration, and he  
> definitely deserves credit for that.
> So, particularly in that light, I would agree that any pair of  
> reflections that would be equivalent if not for anomalous scattering  
> effects could be called a "Bijvoet pair".  This is because they  
> contain the information needed to apply Bijvoet's technique.
> Something that has always eluded me is who decided which is F+ and  
> F-?  After all, the reciprocal lattice is very very nearly  
> centrosymmetric.  You cannot tell by looking at a single diffraction  
> image whether that spot at a given X,Y pixel coordinate is F+ or F-,  
> you need to know the axis convention of the camera.  At some point  
> in writing the CCP4 libraries with their asymmetric unit  
> definitions, someone must have established a convention.  What is  
> it?  To me, the reasoning behind these assignments is, in fact, they  
> key to assigning the absolute configuration, not the anomalous  
> scattering effect itself.  So, who worked this out?  Should we  
> really be calling them Dodson pairs?
>
> -James Holton
> MAD Scientist

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager