Solid luck with that week, Nathan!
Best
Dave
2008/6/8 Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]>:
> Dave, I agree with Andrew. There's alot in that paragraph for me to think
> over. I've been struggling with my poetry lately, probably because I'm
> finally turning a sufficient amount of time towards it. I'm feeling quite
> detached from it really. I've been spending so much time with prose over the
> last year my sense of poetic language has been dulled.
> This is my difficulty (everyone's I suppose, but my own also): I want to
> write with a sense of coherence that can be found in prose, but without the
> restraint it demands. I want to be able to craft original phrases and
> images, but with a considered purpose. Dave, I really appreciate the
> description you've given me of poetic language ascending from the bottom,
> from the constantly moving point. I need to spend more time thinking about
> subject rather than just expression, I suppose. That is what frustrates me
> about J. H. Prynne, to refer to another thread - he's obviously a skilled
> craftsman who can turn a spectacular phrase at times, but to what end? I've
> only read the FACP/Bloodaxe collection of his work, and whenever I pick it
> up, I struggle to find a poem that I understand to any kind of visceral
> depth.
>
> I'll throw myself into a solid week of poetry, I think, and see what comes
> of it.
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 5:52 PM, andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> a well stated and very interesting statement of poetics, Dave. Thanks.
>> andrew
>>
>> 2008/6/8 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>> > Thanks Nathan
>> >
>> > I don't usually spend a lot of time on writing any individual poem -
>> > that one was about 20 minutes at the most, but I read and re-read, out
>> > loud and silently, my own and others poems a lot, with some of my own
>> > I will fuss over a minor detail for a long time in my head afterwards
>> > before often deciding to change it or not. but the re-reading of
>> > poetry from the 'legacy', that helps a lot, to continually expose
>> > oneself to contradictory influences so one's responses to stuff in
>> > life might be flexible and even imaginative. I like to write from
>> > +inside+ a subject, if I can, to try to act it out in words. After
>> > all, poetry's partly an extension playing 'let's pretends' isn't it?
>> > I like those commentators who are explicate rather than explain poems,
>> > in terms of background and nuance, of where a poem is +coming from+
>> > rather than where it's +at+. I dislike theorists intensely, they just
>> > explain away poetry ultimately and leave you with an empty skull.
>> > Intellect, to paraphrase Geoffrey Hill, is not sufficient law.
>> > I try or am trying to find some internal consistency in myself as well
>> > as my poems! These things could be related! I do find it helpful to
>> > think of poetic language as operating from the 'bottom-up' rather than
>> > 'top-down' and to think about things as being from a constantly moving
>> > imagined point of a graph that is 'I'. After all, all things are in
>> > motion. Or the only points of rest are relative.
>> >
>> > Good luck with your own poetry.
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > 2008/6/8 Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > > Really liked this one, David. It has an internal consistency that I
>> > admire.
>> > > I'm working on that in my own poems.
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:22 AM, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> oh! well Cave certainly does that. :) sorry for the confusion, I was
>> > thrown
>> > >> by Roger's reply.. still am.
>> > >>
>> > >> KS
>> > >>
>> > >> 2008/6/8 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh no, kasper, I just meant it was refreshing to see a non-literary
>> > >> > comparison in respect of the feuds that bedevil the literary scene,
>> > >> > that's all. It was nice to get out of the library for a breath of
>> > >> > fresh air!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 2008/6/8 kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > >> > > hatreds past? not sure what you mean. all I did was make a passing
>> > >> > comment.
>> > >> > > is Cave a hated man on this list or something?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > KS
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > 2008/6/7 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >> Thank you kasper for that breath of unliterary fresh air. It
>> > sometimes
>> > >> > >> seems there are too many accumulated small demons in libraries, I
>> > know
>> > >> > >> they can be warded off but all that remembrance of hatreds past
>> > ...
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> 2008/6/7 kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > >> > >> > great language. such subtle twisting!
>> > >> > >> > this could be a cool Nick Cave song
>> > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> > KS
>> > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> > 2008/6/7 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> >> Prospero's Slump
>> > >> > >> >>
>> > >> > >> >> Ah my mad genetic mother
>> > >> > >> >> who drowns the runt unwanted kittens
>> > >> > >> >> downwind of your stinking midden,
>> > >> > >> >> nursingly basting the slaughtered,
>> > >> > >> >> who toythings with tenderness and rhymes,
>> > >> > >> >> dressing dolls in your head-yard,
>> > >> > >> >> telling your jacks your jills but lies, mother,
>> > >> > >> >> all favourites your flowers all weeds.
>> > >> > >> >> The honeybees they're dying, mother,
>> > >> > >> >> the ground work-rate's murder;
>> > >> > >> >> this is the latest of reports from an idiot
>> > >> > >> >> on sporting chances, New Orleans.
>> > >> > >> >>
>> > >> > >> >>
>> > >> > >> >> --
>> > >> > >> >> David Bircumshaw
>> > >> > >> >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > >> > >> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> > >> > >> >> The Animal Subsides
>> > >> > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > >> > >> >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> > >> > >> >>
>> > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> --
>> > >> > >> David Bircumshaw
>> > >> > >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > >> > >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> > >> > >> The Animal Subsides
>> > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > >> > >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > David Bircumshaw
>> > >> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > >> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> > >> > The Animal Subsides
>> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > >> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > http://nathanhondros.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > David Bircumshaw
>> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew
>> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/aburke/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://nathanhondros.blogspot.com
>
--
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
|