I agree with you Anny; these are wise words.
I'm reading about Sartre's creation of Les Temps Moderns and his
elevation via Gilliamard to an exalted level in post-war french
literature. Sartre and Camus had an ongoing rivalry, most of it from
Sartre. Camus had an excellent war record in the resistance whereas
Sartre's resistance - along with de Beauvoir - was patchy. Camus's
work has certainly lasted better.
Les Mains Sales was indeed an actuality for them; some of the French
writers could not be excused on terms of madness, or of going with the
cultural flow - you won't find many US or UK artists in that dread
period without some distasteful opinion - they argued for their
anti-semitism in print and in public; they welcomed the Germans when
they arrived and collaborated heartily.
Roger
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Anny Ballardini
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Thank you David for your long answer.
> I would like to remember the following though:
>
>
> I have a high regard for much of Pound,
> Eliot, Yeats, Stevens, Stein and their kind,
>
> to which yes, we have to add:
>
>
> but it does matter that
> what they represent is kept in sight.
>
> So long, Anny
>
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 6:42 PM, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Anny
> >
> > In the first place because he said it. Because, too, my teeth have
> > been gritting lately at commentators like Perloff who evade the
> > question of a work's content, justify their assertions by invocations
> > of 'theory', without ever specifying the precise nature of that
> > theory, then lament that poetry is not 'Big Business' (her words) like
> > visual art and state that she choses the poets she lectures about on
> > the basis of (her capitals) VALUE (four of the six poets she names as
> > those she choses to teach on are of the far right. Because I've just
> > been reading (the other week) Anthony Julius' book 'T.S.Eliot:
> > anti-Semitism and literary form' (a sobering book). Because, according
> > to the Guardian yesterday, a Conservative shadow minister here exulted
> > in the triumph of the far-right Boris Johnson in the London Mayoral
> > elections with the phrase 'This is like the March on Rome in 1922'.
> > Because I can't tolerate anymore the disjunctions between the literary
> > culture the world presents to me and the social realities of that same
> > world. Because the attenuation of actuality and language in much of
> > Stevens' writing (not that I'm taking pot-shots at blackbirds) does
> > reflect the sleight-of-hand in which political content is insinuated
> > into his imaginary universes: if Pound is brazenly didactic, Yeats
> > hypnotised by the sound of his own voice, Eliot pernicious, Stevens is
> > a conjurer from whose entertainments you go away with a rotten egg
> > marked 'Viva Il Duce' lodged in your pocket: I've once only met Sean
> > O'Brien, he had a drink with some of us after a reading in Leicester,
> > at one point the conversation turned to Stevens, whom he greatly
> > admires. Now Sean O'Brien is not a right-wing character at all, but he
> > would not accept that Stevens' politics had any relation to his
> > poetry.
> > Well it's the distortions of mind that unquestioning acceptance of
> > some facets of our literary culture induce that lead people to such
> > contrary states.
> > It's not, though, that I'm concerned about people having 'feet of
> > clay', pace Roger, we all have those for sure. It's just a matter of
> > what any poetry amounts to - I have a high regard for much of Pound,
> > Eliot, Yeats, Stevens, Stein and their kind, but it does matter that
> > what they represent is kept in sight.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > 2008/5/4 Anny Ballardini <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > Why did you fill it all up with that Mussolini thing?
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:33 AM, David Bircumshaw <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Tsk, I left one out:
> > > >
> > > > The Proverbs of one Wallace Stevens, poet, lawyer and insurance man:
> > > >
> > > > The poet makes silk dresses out of worms.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > After one has abandoned a belief in God, poetry is that essence
> > > > which takes its place as life's redemption.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > All poetry is experimental poetry.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > One reads poetry with one's nerves.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > A poet looks at the world as a man looks at a woman.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > Aristotle is a skeleton.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > Thought tends to collect in pools.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > Poetry must resist the intelligence almost successfully.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > > One cannot spend one's time in being modern
> > > > when there are so many more important things to be.
> > > > Personally, I am pro-Mussolini.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2008/5/4 andrew burke <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 'All poetry is experimental poetry' ... (Who said that? Please
> > tell
> > > > me, b/c
> > > > > > if you like.) Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2008/5/4 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > > The Proverbs of one Wallace Stevens, poet, lawyer and insurance
> > man.
> > > > >
> > > > > The poet makes silk dresses out of worms.
> > > > >
> > > > > After one has abandoned a belief in God, poetry is that essence
> > > > > which takes its place as life's redemption.
> > > > >
> > > > > All poetry is experimental poetry.
> > > > >
> > > > > One reads poetry with one's nerves.
> > > > >
> > > > > A poet looks at the world as a man looks at a woman.
> > > > >
> > > > > Aristotle is a skeleton.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thought tends to collect in pools.
> > > > >
> > > > > Poetry must resist the intelligence almost successfully.
> > > > >
> > > > > One cannot spend one's time in being modern
> > > > > when there are so many more important things to be.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2008/5/4 andrew burke <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 'All poetry is experimental poetry' ... (Who said that? Please
> > tell
> > > > me, b/c
> > > > > > if you like.) Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David Bircumshaw
> > > > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > > > The Animal Subsides
> > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Bircumshaw
> > > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Anny Ballardini
> > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> > > star!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Bircumshaw
> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>
--
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue
She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too"
The Go-Betweens
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