It is a strange mix here. Instead of class, we have "anti-intellectualism"
on one side and "elites" on the other. But we sure have race, and race
riots. And God help you if you're a non-english speaking migrant, political
refugee or asylum seeker, that is if you make it through a decade of
"detention".
I've just returned from Europe and have realised that we are also a Police
State, with armed officers on almost every corner and governments ever ready
to introduce knee jerk draconian legislation; there is a penalty for
everything. We're proud we're not Americans, but want to be just as wealthy,
and I wonder sometimes whether our cultural life is as rich or as diverse.
But the weather's great. There are lots of other good things as well,
including the affable poets. And quaffable wine. Not to mention the seafood.
And the beaches, that is if you can keep out of the way of the coppers.

Oh, if we have your working class, you have all our newspaper barons and
pissed students on holiday. I know who's better off!


On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 7:05 PM, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>  >But I live in Australia and we decided not to have class! Ha.<
>
> I noticed that when I was there five years ago. Casinos and slot
> machines instead isn't it?
>
> Seriously, what I did like was the non-class ambience of poetry events
> in Melbourne. Curious it all is: armed police checking tickets on
> trains and affable poets. Cultureless, in some ways, and lots of
> people who are into poetry because they enjoy it. Funny old world we
> all live in.
>
> Very British working-class too, there in the Pacific. Perhaps that's
> the answer to the question: where have the Brit working class gone?
> Australia.
>
> Watching the Bill on tv. (It was on every night when I was there)
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
> 2008/5/26 Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]>:
> > Median income may be a more useful statistic. For the UK, I found a
> > statistic from the 2007 Annual Survey of hours and Earnings which put the
> > median at £23764 per annum (for the year ending April 2007). So exactly
> one
> > half of all full time employees in the UK earned less than that.
> >
> > As an aside, the median for men was £25896 per annum and the median for
> > women was £20488 per annum. The top 10% of the earning distribution
> earned
> > more than £47112.
> >
> > But I live in Australia and we decided not to have class! Ha.
> >
> > On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 4:13 PM, David Bircumshaw <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, I didn't use the term 'working-class' but did use 'middle-class'
> >> as a descriptor of the narrative in the Guardian, mainly because I
> >> couldn't think of any other way to describe it.
> >> Pace Christopher's post, what has happened in Britain is that an
> >> increasing amount of people think of themselves as 'middle class' or
> >> something effectively the same, while the reality is that other than
> >> in China and India the middle classes (in income terms) have been
> >> shrinking in numbers throughout the developed and developing economies
> >> while the wealth of the super-rich has been increasing.
> >> The supposed average wage in Britain is now roughly £30,000 per annum
> >> yet the overwhelming majority of those in work earn nothing like that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2008/5/26 Sally Evans <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> > Both tories and labour are after the "old voters" when they play the
> >> class
> >> > card - people aged 80 who voted for the one party all their lives.
> >> > Sally Evans
> >> > http://www.poetryscotland.co.uk
> >> > http://groups.msn.com/desktopsallye
> >> > http://www.myspace.com/poetsallyevans
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Walker" <
> >> [log in to unmask]>
> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 1:12 AM
> >> > Subject: Working Class v Middle Class (was Re: New beats (???))
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >> Anybody out there willing to define, describe---specify---wot
> "working"
> >> >> class means to them, to any of us, to UK'ers, to USAmericans, to
> >> >> Australians, to Italians, to Finns? [JP]
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >>
> >> >> My serious and considered view is that in Britain 'working class' is
> now
> >> >> almost entirely a polemical term, when it isn't just an item of false
> >> >> consciousness. With Britain's two main political parties now firmly
> and
> >> >> indistinguishably neo-liberal in practice if not in preaching, both
> >> >> (though
> >> >> most commonly New Labour because of the history of the party it
> >> destroyed)
> >> >> play the *Working Class* card, albeit in different ways, because they
> >> know
> >> >> it induces reactions. And *affect* is what is wanted rather than
> (say)
> >> >> change.
> >> >>
> >> >> But it was always a baggy term, inclusive both of those retaining
> >> >> jealously
> >> >> guarded skills and those progressively deskilled through automation.
> >> Now,
> >> >> like 'ethnically British', a card also used by New Labour ('British
> jobs
> >> >> for
> >> >> British workers'), it asserts something about origins in a rather
> >> >> delimiting
> >> >> way.
> >> >>
> >> >> Although conventional British wisdom holds that the 'middle class' is
> >> >> expanding, I think that this term too now means extremely little. On
> the
> >> >> one
> >> >> hand freelance work of various sorts (outsourcing, agency working,
> what
> >> is
> >> >> often figleafed as 'consultancy' and so forth) has blurred the
> >> distinction
> >> >> between the two erstwhile classes both in terms of economic
> relationship
> >> >> to
> >> >> an employer and in terms of overall wealth. On the other the shift
> >> towards
> >> >> *immaterial labour* has increasingly deskilled the 'middle class'
> >> >> professional in quite fundamental ways.
> >> >>
> >> >> Once again the curious result of all this is that political arguments
> in
> >> >> Britain (a sort of 'immaterial labour' in itself) are now not about
> >> social
> >> >> realities but are matters of pure presentation. So the
> 'precaritization'
> >> >> of
> >> >> great chunks of the former 'middle class' goes more or less
> undiscussed
> >> >> whilst the local benefit which some members of the former 'working
> >> class'
> >> >> have undoubtedly received as a side effect of this process is
> frequently
> >> >> presented as upward class mobility, which is something it is not.
> >> >>
> >> >> CW
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >> 'Life is too precious to spend it with important people.'
> >> >> (Harry Partch)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> David Bircumshaw
> >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> >> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://nathanhondros.blogspot.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>



-- 
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