oh I know it wasn't by you. but it's a nice piece, if the aesthetics
of 'nostratic' is very alien to me
KS
On 13/04/2008, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> thanks, Kasper, but I'd make clear it's +not+ by me. Roger Day
> mentioned Wikipedia on Nostratic so I thought I'd have a dekkers at
> what was there and found that - the Nostratic was by a Russian
> linguist and the wikipedia article includes (his) Russian translation
> and (somebody's) English version.
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 13/04/2008, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > that's beautiful David
> >
> >
> > KS
> >
> >
> > On 11/04/2008, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > Mind you, I liked the hypothetical Nostratic poem:
> > >
> > >
> > > K̕elHæ wet̕ei ʕaK̕un kæhla
> > > k̕at͡ɬai palhVk̕V na wetæ
> > > ɕa da ʔak̕V ʔeja ʔælæ
> > > jak̕o pele t̕uba wete
> > >
> > > Language is a ford through the river of time,
> > > it leads us to the dwelling of the dead;
> > > but he cannot arrive there,
> > > who fears deep water.
> > >
> > > (it was worth doing this just to see my spell-checker have a fit)
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/04/2008, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > I see what you did there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM, David Bircumshaw
> > > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > >Occasionally I'll look at this and think, fine. However I always
> > > > > return to the Ugric language group: how come the Hungarian Ugric and
> > > > > the Ob Ugric are so far apart geographically? Same continent, but
> > > > > that's a long distance between the two groups. Can anyone elucidate?<
> > > > >
> > > > > People have feet. And horses. Well, some of Hun anyhow.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/04/2008, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > Occasionally I'll look at this and think, fine. However I always
> > > > > > return to the Ugric language group: how come the Hungarian Ugric and
> > > > > > the Ob Ugric are so far apart geographically? Same continent, but
> > > > > > that's a long distance between the two groups. Can anyone elucidate?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > re: Nostratic: The prevailing impression of the Nostratic hypothesis
> > > > > > was summed up by Edward Finnegan in the witticism, "there's too much
> > > > > > there to be nothing, but not enough there to be something."
> > > > > > (quoted from the Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:25 AM, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > London Review of Books, cover date 10 April 2008
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Land East of the Asterisk
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wendy Doniger on the Indo-Europeans
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n07/doni01_.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Indo-European Poetry and Myth by M.L. West
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nineteenth-century German and British linguists, building on some
> > > > > > > 18th-century hunches, uncovered the connections between members of a large
> > > > > > > (and rather dysfunctional) family of languages that included ancient Greek,
> > > > > > > Latin, Hittite (in ancient Anatolia), Vedic Sanskrit (in ancient India),
> > > > > > > Avestan (in ancient Iran), the Celtic and Norse-Germanic languages and,
> > > > > > > ultimately, French, German, Italian, Spanish, English and all their friends
> > > > > > > and relations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They called the family Indo-European or Indo-Germanic or Indo-Aryan, and
> > > > > > > assumed that, some time in the fourth millennium BCE, the single parent
> > > > > > > language, Proto-Indo-European (as easy as PIE), broke apart to give birth to
> > > > > > > the more ancient languages of the group, which continued to branch off into
> > > > > > > sub-groups.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are no attested examples of the parent language before the break-up;
> > > > > > > the Indo-European speakers almost certainly had no knowledge of writing, and
> > > > > > > the earliest example of any Indo-European language that we have is a
> > > > > > > 14th-century BCE Anatolian treaty in Hittite that calls on the Hittite
> > > > > > > version of several Vedic gods.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reconstructed, hypothetical forms of Indo-European therefore, are
> > > > > > > usually designated with an apologetic or apotropaic asterisk.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thus *H1ekwo-, for instance, or more simply *ekwos, the PIE word for
> > > > > > > Œhorse¹, yields the Latin equus, Gallic epos, Greek hippos, Sanskrit as´va,
> > > > > > > Old English eoh and so forth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Martin West, who has written what is surely the definitive book on
> > > > > > > Indo-European language and religion, states his case well...etc etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > > > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue
> > > > > > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too"
> > > > > > The Go-Betweens
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David Bircumshaw
> > > > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > "She went out with her paint box, paints the chapel blue
> > > > She went out with her matches, torched the car-wash too"
> > > > The Go-Betweens
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > David Bircumshaw
> > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> David Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>
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