JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for INT-BOUNDARIES Archives


INT-BOUNDARIES Archives

INT-BOUNDARIES Archives


INT-BOUNDARIES@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

INT-BOUNDARIES Home

INT-BOUNDARIES Home

INT-BOUNDARIES  April 2008

INT-BOUNDARIES April 2008

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

brit mod reveals what it thought was the truth of the hms cornwall affair

From:

aletheia kallos <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

aletheia kallos <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:38:16 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (160 lines)

from todays times of london
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3761058.ece

Report reveals Iran seized British sailors in disputed
waters

Fifteen British sailors and Marines were seized by
Iran in internationally disputed waters and not in
Iraq’s maritime territory as Parliament was told,
according to new official documents released to The
Times.

The Britons were seized because the US-led coalition
designated a sea boundary for Iran’s territorial
waters without telling the Iranians where it was,
internal Ministry of Defence briefing papers reveal.

Documents released under the Freedom of Information
Act detail for the first time the blunders last spring
that led to what an all-party committee of MPs came to
describe as a “national embarrassment”.

The captured 14 men and one woman were paraded on
Iranian TV for a fortnight before being freed a year
ago by a smiling President Ahmadinejad, who gave them
new suits and bags of presents.

Newly released Ministry of Defence documents state
that:

— The arrests took place in waters that are not
internationally agreed as Iraqi;

— The coalition unilaterally designated a dividing
line between Iraqi and Iranian waters in the Gulf
without telling Iran where it was;

— The Iranian Revolutionary Guards’ coastal protection
vessels were crossing this invisible line at a rate of
three times a week; It was the British who apparently
raised their weapons first before the Iranian gunboats
came alongside;

— The cornered British, surrounded by heavily armed
Iranians, made a hopeless last-minute radio plea for a
helicopter to come back and provide air cover.

Iran always claimed that it had arrested the Britons
for violating its territorial integrity.

Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, repeatedly told the
Commons that the personnel were seized in Iraqi
waters.

The MoD, in a televised briefing by Vice-Admiral
Charles Style, the Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff,
produced a map showing a line in the sea called
“Iraq/Iran Territorial Water Boundary”. A location was
given for the capture of the Britons inside what the
chart said were “Iraq territorial waters”. But the
newly released top-level internal briefing accepts
that no such border exists.

The report, addressed to Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock
Stirrup, the Chief of the Defence Staff, blames the
incident on the absence of an agreed boundary and a
failure to coordinate between Iraq, Iran and the
coalition.

Under the heading “Why the incident occurred”, the
report examines the history of a border that has been
disputed since a treaty between the Persian and
Ottoman empires in 1639.

Professor Robert Springborg, of the School of Oriental
and African Studies, said yesterday that it was
negligent to fail to clarify with the Iranians where
the notional boundary was.

Using the Freedom of Information Act, The Times made
requests about the events. The MoD released two
documents, although parts are censored. One is the
report to Sir Jock dated April 13, 2007, a week after
the Britons returned home unharmed. It was compiled
after they had been debriefed. The other is the
communications log between the mother ship HMS
Cornwall and the two seaboats used by the boarding
party.

What they said

“There is no doubt that HMS Cornwall was operating in
Iraqi waters and that the incident itself took place
in Iraqi waters . . . In the early days the Iranians
provided us with a set of coordinates, and asserted
that was where the event took place, but when we told
them the coordinates were in Iraqi waters they changed
that set and found one in their own waters. I do not
think that even they sustain the position that the
incident took place anywhere other than in Iraqi
waters”

Des Browne, Defence Secretary, House of Commons, June
16, 2007

“Since the outset of the Iraq-Iran War there has been
no formal ratified TTW [territorial waters] agreement
in force between Iraq and Iran . . . In the absence of
any formal agreement, the coalition tactical
demarcation (the Op Line) is used as a notional TTW
boundary. It is a US NAVCENT [US Naval Forces Central
Command] construct based on an extension of the
Algiers accord demarcation line beyond the mouth of
the Shatt al-Arab [waterway] into the NAG [northern
Arabian Gulf]. While it may be assumed that the
Iranians must be aware of some form of operational
boundary, the exact coordinates to the Op Line have
not been published to Iran.”

MoD report to the Chief of the Defence Staff under the
heading: ‘Why the incident occurred’, dated April 13,
2007, released to The Times under the FoI

the online version of the article inexplicably ends in
midflight there

& you may recall some critical questions were raised
here at the time
for example
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0704&L=int-boundaries&T=0&F=&S=&P=1163
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0703&L=int-boundaries&T=0&F=&S=&P=3314
etc

yet even now
i still dont see anyone getting to the likeliest truth
of the matter
which is that the brits just inadvertently dropped the
decimal seconds from one of the iranian arabic coords
initially

& later 
when the correct coords were reiterated by the
iranians
http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20070402&t=2&i=555214&w=450
the brits faulted them for supposedly changing their
position

& that the marines thus really were captured at
martins position 3 here
http://www.dur.ac.uk/ibru/resources/iran-iraq/

but does anyone here now doubt that this is what
actually happened
even if the mod still doesnt realize it


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager