I find it a highly educated and most enjoyable "rant," if such is the
definition of such an elaborate thought. I agree with you on the difference
between "an academic understanding" and the "intuition" or "sensitivity" or
whatever the talent or quality to appreciate or "meet" a poem. I also
discovered, and especially in translation, that not often does my intuition
meet the understanding of the other, especially with Emily Dickinson's
poems, or with Ezra Pound's poems (widely translated into Italian). I
remember I found a book at the library of a collection of poems by EP sided
by the translation of two different translators. And I rarely agreed with
any of the two. And then, who am I to say?

I think we are trying to draw parameters on an impossible field.


On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I feel some small responsibility for the formal education vs self-taught
> debate so I'll contribute.
>
> I have this notion that it may be possible to teach literature and
> criticism
> (the construction of the tools; Anny, I like that analogy) but that an
> academic understanding of writing and its methods, or even the complex
> interaction of a reader with a poem, is more elusive. I can barely
> describe
> the way in which I interact with a good poem, let alone understand it on
> more than merely a formal level. Can this form of emotional intertwining
> between an audience and a work of art be taught? Perhaps I am saying that
> what I love is the personal experience of a poem, and not the breadth of
> understanding or intellectual concept that underpins it.
>
> I do disagree with the tabula rasa model. All writing owes a debt to the
> good and the mediocre that went before it, and this must be learned or
> unlearned as the case may be.
>
> Ezra Pound advised writers to "pay no attention to the criticism of men
> who
> have never themselves written a notable work". I've read William Faulkner
> quoted as saying that real writers are far too arrogant to listen to
> anyone
> when it comes to their writing. These two quotes fit so well together,
> don't
> they?
> But, of course, these thoughts of mine are unschooled. Perhaps the value
> of
> schooling in these matters is in knowing what has been thought and spoken
> before, so that one doesn't end up repeating what everyone else already
> knows? I apologise if that's the case with the rant above!
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 9:35 PM, judy prince <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I had liked your Christmas cards poem, Martin.  A little gem.
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Martin Dolan" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Introduction
> >
> >
> > > Hi Anny
> > >
> > > I'm not looking for an argument, either - and certainly not one about
> > the
> > > academy and poetry!
> > >
> > > I too have a sense of duty to my professors, who (mostly) were good at
> > > their job. As a result, I left my studies with an adequate (if
> somewhat
> > > dated) appreciation of the tools of literary criticism and how to use
> > > them. I also had my eyes opened to a range of writers I would not have
> > > encountered otherwise, including an obscure French-Canadian poet upon
> > whom
> > > I lavished too much time in my final year.
> > >
> > > What I didn't get (perhaps the fault was with myself) was any bridge
> > > between the world of criticism and theory and the world of applied
> > > literature - such as writing poetry. I doubt any of my professors saw
> > that
> > > as their role. I'm not sure that I did either.
> > >
> > > The consequence was a certain amount of literary self-consciousness
> and
> > a
> > > limited set of poetic tools. The poetic result - when not silence -
> was
> > > unedifying. It took me a long time to get a better balance between the
> > two
> > > elements. Still working on it.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > >> Hi Martin,
> > >>
> > >> without any wish of arguing but out of a sense of duty towards some
> of
> > my
> > >> professors (the old English teacher excluded, and I agree with you
> > here),
> > >> I
> > >> have received much from my formal studies, as a matter of fact what I
> > >> consider my backbone. And I am sorry I do not have time enough to go
> > back
> > >> to
> > >> the Authors that at the time were so dear to me.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Anny
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Martin Dolan <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Nathan
> > >>>
> > >>> I look forward to talking with you.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think I'm mostly self-taught, too. Is there another way? English
> and
> > >>> French literature at university hindered more than helped the
> writing,
> > >>> on mature reflection, however much it helped the understanding.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> Martin Dolan
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
star!