Hi All,
In case you're wondering, I *do* have a day job, but I'm off sick today, hence the posts....
OK, so maybe the Twitter comment was glib, but seriously, take a look at the following first 5 current posts from the public timeline of Twitter 2 minutes ago:
================
druzba
Felice Brothers = Good Stuff
Pillywiggin78
Looking forward to a Green Mill afternoon.
puremotif
this is a day of meetings. one in the conference room then one in buffalo. had a nightmare #2. got stuck in a bathroom and missed the bus.
TheStalwart
Had some Chinese food last night, but stupidly threw out the leftovers. Shouldn't have done that. Would make for a good breakfast.
Jtobin
Successful social media marketing campaign on MySpace. I thought I may never see one: http://is.gd/2YV Shows how tool has to fit the job.
==================
There's variable quality, and then there's absolute drivel.
On Paul's point (and Paul apologies for singling you out for a direct response) this is really indicative of something which I think is central to this problem. Yes, the barriers to participation in purely *technological* terms have come crashing down. Yes, it is easier to publish and play and experiment than ever before. But the barriers to creating a successful, market-ready high-quality service are just as high as they ever were.
If there's space to deliver high-quality, value-driven services *and* play with new tech at the same time, then great. My concern is that we're at risk of running to the new stuff because the old stuff is too difficult to sort out.
Nick
Nick Poole
Chief Executive
MDA
www.mda.org.uk
www.collectionslink.org.uk
Tel: 01223 316028
Fax: 01223 364658
MDA (Europe) Ltd: Company Registration No: 1300565
Reg. Office: 22 Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 1JP.
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Walk
Sent: 27 March 2008 13:06
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The speculative aspect of using Web 2 [was: British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki]
I also would not characterise Twitter as "a constantly-updated trivia
machine". While it is a constantly updated feed of small/atomic units
of information - the nature & 'importance' of that information varies
tremendously. One of the appealing things about Twitter currently is
its simplicity - the barriers to entry are vanishingly small as is the
cost of incorporating it into other activities through its superbly
simple API.
Not to dwell on a particular product/service, the "very low barrier to
participation" is now, arguably a reality with a core set of web
services. The risk involved in experimentation is accordingly somewhat
reduced. I think this is significant.
Paul
On 27 Mar 2008, at 12:24, Andy Powell wrote:
> Nick,
> I broadly agree with much of what you say below, but it doesn't strike
> me as helpful to [mis-]characterise Twitter as "a constantly-updated
> trivia machine". Firstly, doing so is hardly conducive to creating an
> environment in which people are encouraged to experiment. Secondly,
> it
> strikes me that some people would characterise the whole of the
> blogsphere, the whole of YouTube, or even the whole of the Web, in
> much
> the same way - which is hardly a reason for museums to stop using them
> as useful tools.
>
> Speaking only for myself, I use Twitter to read and write my fair
> share
> of trivia, but I also use it for the non-trivial as well. To take
> just
> one example, Twitter is now my primary way of being alerted to new
> stories on BBC Education (http://twitter.com/bbceducation) and various
> other parts of the BBC. Ditto various 'feeds' from the Guardian.
> Certainly not trivia.
>
> Are the BBC and the Guardian mis-guided in experimenting with
> Twitter as
> a way of engaging with people? I don't think so.
>
> W.r.t. your final question:
>
>> I think there is real potential in having a safe
>> 'playground' in which to test these propositions before they
>> become live services. Is this something which people would
>> find appealing?
>
> I'm not sure I fully understand what the "safe 'playground'" would
> offer. At least, not in this case. In a sense, Twitter *is* the
> playground. Web 2.0... perpetual beta... and all that??
>
> As an end-user, I have no idea whether the tweets I get from BBC
> Education form part of their 'formal' service offering, or is someone
> experimenting in a beta kind of way... and to be honest, I don't much
> care. It's useful and it works.
>
> Andy
> --
> Head of Development, Eduserv Foundation
> http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/
> http://efoundations.typepad.com/
> [log in to unmask]
> +44 (0)1225 474319
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Nick Poole
>> Sent: 27 March 2008 11:15
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: The speculative aspect of using Web 2 [was:
>> British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki]
>>
>> Tehmina,
>>
>> Thanks for a very interesting and balanced post. I think you
>> are correct - there is an element of exploration involved
>> here, which is obviously an important part of innovation. My
>> concern with these things has always been the risk of a large
>> number of museums investing in basically unsustainable
>> services which do little to support their core mission.
>>
>> On the subject of Twitter, you ask which museum wouldn't want
>> the brief attention of a million people. Firstly, it is
>> highly unlikely that of this million claimed users, more than
>> a couple of tens of thousands are *really* active users (it's
>> the same issue with Second Life's claimed population). This
>> really is a niche market, and my answer would be that even a
>> million brief viewers is of little use at all if it's the
>> *wrong* million, or if our information is lost in a torrent
>> of in-jokes and Silicon Valley startup party invites.
>>
>> We need to think hard about which problems we are going to
>> try and solve, and then identify the best technologies to do
>> so. Imagine a world in which Twitter did not exist (give it a
>> couple of years...) would you really invent a
>> constantly-updated trivia machine as the best way of
>> communicating with museum audiences?
>>
>> I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't.
>>
>> Which takes us back to your original proposition - how do
>> museums find the time and money to play with
>> innovative/speculative services, even where these don't
>> necessarily resolve to long-term changes in the way we do
>> things? I know that Eduserv were looking at investing in a
>> sandbox/incubator in which museums could muck about with
>> stuff. I think there is real potential in having a safe
>> 'playground' in which to test these propositions before they
>> become live services. Is this something which people would
>> find appealing?
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Poole
>> Chief Executive
>> MDA
>>
>> www.mda.org.uk
>> www.collectionslink.org.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel: 01223 316028
>> Fax: 01223 364658
>>
>> MDA (Europe) Ltd: Company Registration No: 1300565 Reg.
>> Office: 22 Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 1JP.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Tehmina Goskar
>> Sent: 27 March 2008 10:23
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: The speculative aspect of using Web 2 [was:
>> British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki]
>>
>> There is also, of course, the speculative aspect of using web
>> 2 methods to either solicit user response or get them to
>> create information for you or spread your information
>> elsewhere. As both Mike and Nick note, every organisation
>> and project has specific needs and aims and these are the
>> things that should come first. However I wonder if many
>> organisations big and small are using social networking tools
>> and related applications in a speculative way - to see what
>> happens. This may result in 'interactions'
>> far beyond expectations or more modest ones but certainly
>> quite often unexpected ones.
>>
>> Many of us who have used flickr, for example, have done so
>> with a desire simply to share information with no specific
>> view on _who_ we should share these things with. As an
>> individual, I have done the same and have been quite
>> surprised at some of the interest in my photographs, e.g. for
>> a southern American recipe book, for a citizenship website,
>> for an alternative health documentary, for a popular
>> archaeological textbook... some have also been shared on
>> enthusiasts websites including one on manhole covers. I did
>> not seek any of these outcomes - and certainly did not expect
>> them. Museums and heritage organisations who do the same
>> will likewise not always know how such things will turn out.
>>
>> A propos the previous post on the critique of apps such as
>> twitter, a million people may not be a big number for Oracle
>> or Cisco but which museum online or otherwise would not want
>> a million people's attention, however brief, on their
>> collections and information? The technology is also
>> reciprocal. It's not all about what our audiences will get
>> out of it but what _we_ can get out of it too.
>>
>> There is, for sure, a horses for courses basic rule to using
>> web applications to increase awareness of your organisation
>> and its information but there is also a speculative aspect
>> which, it seems to me, is important - there is also an
>> element of this to putting on temporary exhibitions - it is
>> not always clear who will be interested in them and results
>> can sometimes be surprising. How you weigh up this
>> speculation against time and resource costs is a more
>> difficult matter to resolve. The choice just needs to be
>> well-informed.
>>
>> Tehmina
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27/03/2008, Nick Poole <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Rhiannon,
>>>
>>> Many thanks for your email about the BPMA Wiki. I would be really
>>> interested to know more about why the BPMA took the decision to
>>> implement a Wiki. Is it something your online audience have been
>>> requesting? Is there a specific target demographic for whom
>> a Wiki is
>>> their preferred form of interaction?
>>>
>>> The reason I ask is because of your comment about taking
>> time to get
>>> people on there. Of course, this may simply be the inertia faced by
>>> any fledgling service, but at the same time I am not sure
>> whether this
>>> is central to your mission or an incidental add-on.
>>>
>>> Not to be too negative about things, but (bearing in mind
>> the recent
>>> exchange between Frankie and Mike) I remain sceptical about the
>>> appropriateness of models like social networking and participative
>>> media to the delivery of museums online. As Mike notes, there's no
>>> hard and fast rule
>>> - it's appropriate when it's appropriate - but I'd be really
>>> interested to know whether this is a case of 'because we can' or
>>> whether there is a genuine audience/marketing driver behind
>> this thing.
>>>
>>> Similarly, I'd be very interested to know more about the
>> outcomes of
>>> your dissertation - not just from a quantitative point of view (how
>>> many museums are doing this), but also from a qualitative one (of
>>> those museums, how may are doing it well, and how many will
>> still be
>>> an actively supported resource in 2 years time).
>>>
>>> Of course, I see the potential of crowdsourcing interpretation and
>>> selection, and the Wiki model certainly offers a potential
>> channel for
>>> people to get at the museums back-end systems, but I think
>> we run the
>>> risk of overlooking the very specific psychology and
>> demographics of
>>> User Generated Content, and regarding it as something
>> appropriate for
>>> a generalist audience.
>>>
>>> Any further info gratefully received!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Poole
>>> Chief Executive
>>> MDA
>>>
>>> www.mda.org.uk
>>> www.collectionslink.org.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: 01223 316028
>>> Fax: 01223 364658
>>>
>>> MDA (Europe) Ltd: Company Registration No: 1300565 Reg. Office: 22
>>> Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 1JP.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of
>>> Rhiannon Looseley
>>> Sent: 26 March 2008 17:43
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought some of you might be interested in hearing about the new
>>> British Postal Museum & Archive (BPMA) Wiki:
>>> www.postalheritage.org.uk/wiki. It's based on Zwiki
>> technology which
>>> is Zope/Plone developers' answer to Wiki technology.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a bit of an experiment and at the moment, unsurprisingly, it's
>>> taking a bit of time to get people on there. I've started
>> a few 'seeds'
>>> to get people started. At the bottom of this email is an
>> example of
>>> the email we sent out to our E-Newsletter mailing list to try and
>>> encourage people to contribute. It gives you an example of some of
>>> the seeds we're using at the moment. We've created similar
>> flyers and
>>> newsletter articles as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be interested in hearing any suggestions others
>> might have on
>>> topics we could use to get people started and also experiences of
>>> building up a community like this. I'm particularly keen
>> to find ways
>>> of making the most of Wikis' potential for collaborative work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also if you're interested, I'm currently writing my MA in Museum
>>> Studies Dissertation on Museum Wikis, with ours as a case
>> study. I'm
>>> blogging about my progress at:
>> http://rhiannonlooseley.blogspot.com if
>>> anyone is interested in following my progress. I'd welcome any
>>> comments along the way (please let me know if you
>> specifically don't
>>> want me to quote your comments, either on my blog, or by
>> email, in my dissertation).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Rhiannon Looseley
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Rhiannon Looseley
>>>
>>> Web Officer
>>>
>>> Tel: 020 7239 2588
>>>
>>> Fax: 020 7239 2576
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>>> The British Postal Museum & Archive (BPMA)
>>>
>>> Freeling House, Phoenix Place, London WC1X 0DL
>>>
>>> www.postalheritage.org.uk <http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> British postal communications helped to shape the modern world. The
>>> British Postal Museum & Archive illuminates the lives of
>> people in the
>>> Post Office, the messages carried by Royal Mail, the history we all
>>> share. Our history through the post.
>>>
>>> The BPMA is the public identity of the Postal Heritage Trust.
>>>
>>> Registered as a charity in England and Wales.
>>> Registered Charity Number 1102360
>>> Company Number 4896056
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Family History Research
>>>
>>>
>>> Researching your postal ancestors? Want to share what you've
>>> discovered with a wider audience? Why not use the Wiki to
>> tell others
>>> about your research?
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Family history research
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OE7Q6963B7UOK4YSTV>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Postal History
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know a lot about a certain aspect of postal history?
>> Have you
>>> uncovered a particularly interesting story in our archive? Why not
>>> tell us more about them on the Wiki?
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Postal history
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OEYMPO78SIJ7MY0JO3>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Working with our collections
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you/do you work for the Post Office? Do you recognise
>> some of the
>>> objects and documents in our Collections section
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OE0QP7O71MVG
>> I0PIQW> ?
>>> Why not tell us about what it was/is like to work with them?
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Working with our collections
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OEBHDGUI0DHZ2L69O7>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Working for the Post Office
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you/do you work for the Post Office or Royal Mail? Tell
>> us about
>>> your experiences on the Wiki.
>>>
>>> What do you think has changed over the years? We'd be interested to
>>> hear what you think.
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Working for the Post Office
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OECZXA1DOTRLJIRJAD>
>>> to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Letter boxes
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have a digital image of a particularly interesting
>> letter box?
>>> Why not upload your image to the Wiki and tell us more about it.
>>>
>>> Is there a letter box near you that you would like to know
>> more about?
>>> Maybe someone else out there can help you with your query.
>> You could
>>> post a question on the Wiki.
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Letter boxes
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OE789FM2I4ZDYIV491>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> War Memorials in the Post Office
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you noticed a War Memorial in your local Post Office?
>> Please help
>>> us compile our database of Post Office War Memorials.
>>>
>>> Use our Wiki War Memorials in the Post Office
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OETUG225U1E5M98XFF>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> ------
>>>
>>>
>>> **************************************************
>>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit
>>> the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>>> **************************************************
>>>
>>> **************************************************
>>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit
>>> the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>>> **************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tehmina Goskar, MA AMA
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Web Communication Development for Culture, Heritage and
>> Academia Museum Specialist Historian
>>
>> **************************************************
>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>> **************************************************
>>
>> **************************************************
>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>> **************************************************
>>
>
> **************************************************
> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list,
> visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
> **************************************************
--------------------------------------------
Paul Walk
Technical Manager
UKOLN (University of Bath)
http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/
[log in to unmask]
+44(0)1225383933
--------------------------------------------
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For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
**************************************************
**************************************************
For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
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