Tupla worshipers????
I am just speaking about the two groups I know personally and I am not
making broader statements about the structures of Paganism. Personally
though I think its a supernaturalising of psychologial archetypes. It
also does not see the beings as divine in their own right but a creation
of human interaction with the magical realm. It still fist within the
archetypal model of Paganism but invests them with divine power through
a gnostic model of supernaturalism.
Just a view through early morning cuppa tea time.
Cheers
David
Ty Falk wrote:
> So where do you assign those folk who feel that by ascribing energy to
> those psychological truths they call the literal beings into literal
> existence?
>
> On Feb 18, 2008 6:46 PM, David Waldron <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Well I think this hits the fundamental division between the recons and
> the hermetic Pagans I know. The recons believe in an existent literal
> polytheism grounded in history and heritage where as the hermetic (and
> fluffies) tend to see them as archetypes of psycological truths.
> Depends on your underlying epistemological basis of faith. In a sense
> its why I am increasingly seeing neo-Paganism splitting between
> historicist and archetypal practitioners given that their respective
> world views are increasingly becoming incompatible.
> Cheers
> David
>
>
>
> D E wrote:
> > I see nothing odd with having a trekkie mythos ritual
> >
> > I think it was Phil Hine who made the two points that (a) if ritual
> > participants know Star Trek and not Greek myths there is no point in
> > hitting them with a Greek mythic ritual when Star Trek
> characters have
> > far more resonance with them and (b) a lot of things in Star
> Trek (and
> > all modern tv culture) are Greek myths reworked in any case.
> Star Trek
> > has an inner cohesion and set of rules (much like cabbala) and could
> > be regarded as a mythic cycle... the main difference is lack of
> > longevity- Greek myths are merely older, but how much "more
> true" are
> > they? Hard to work out a unit of measure on that front...
> >
> > dave a
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* David Waldron <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > *To:* [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > *Sent:* Monday, February 18, 2008 11:26 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Lovecraft- was A question
> > about Ganesh
> >
> > In any case Lovecraft didn't really have a systematized
> mythos per
> > se. It was put onto his work retrospectively by fans and, of
> > course, August Derleth. I think it tends to problematise
> the kind
> > of hermetic reading some chaos magicians etc give to his work.
> > Personally I find the use of the fictionalised characters a
> little
> > odd and exist because he is an esoteric writer who is gothic and
> > cool from a late 20th C point of view. It seems to me
> pretty much
> > the same as some D&D pagans I knew a while back who used
> Takhisis
> > and Paladine as imago die. I wonder if people follow David
> > Eddings deities. :-P It would be all cutesy idealized
> rural New
> > England. I've heard of a group using Star Trek characters for
> > that matter. I am sure the Discordians would love that sort of
> > thing and it makes my recon friends and contacts burst out
> laughing.
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel Harms wrote:
> >> I wouldn't put it quite in those terms. I see there being
> numerous different "Lovecrafts" - the Lovecraft of "The Dunwich
> Horror", the Lovecraft of "The Hound", the Lovecraft of "At the
> Mountains of Madness", the Lovecraft of his letters (who could in
> turn be several Lovecrafts) - and different people take the
> Lovecraft they want. Sure, Lovecraft says in "At the
> Mountains..." that the Old Ones are aliens, but you don't have to
> listen to him.
> >>
> >> Plus, it might not be quite so much of a tension.
> Lovecraft himself used his mechanistic materialism to justify his
> personal aesthetics - if the universe really doesn't have a
> special place for humanity, then seeking out enjoyment and
> fulfillment in art is perfectly justifiable. I think the chaos
> magicians differ from him insofar as they do not turn to
> traditional forms as Lovecraft did, and that they believe their
> art work on a level other than the artistic.
> >>
> >> Dan Harms
> >> Coordinator of Instruction Librarian
> >> State University of New York - Cortland
> >> Memorial Library B-110
> >> (607) - 753-4042
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic on behalf of
> Justin Woodman
> >> Sent: Sun 2/17/2008 5:42 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Lovecraft- was A
> question about Ganesh
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I pretty much agree with much of the below - the use of the
> >> Derleth-influenced Simon Necronomicon as the
> 'authoritative' text on the
> >> Lovecraft mythos being a case in point.
> >>
> >> Although I tend to think of Lovecraft as being either
> misread or
> >> misunderstood in many occultural recensions of his work, I
> do think that a
> >> tension exists between Lovecraft's mechanistic materialism
> and a kind of
> >> romantic Gnostic sensibility sometimes found in his letters
> and fiction
> >> - a tension which inadvertantly allows for a more
> 'supernaturalist'
> >> interpretation of his work.
> >>
> >> Justin
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've noticed that those enthusiastic about Lovecraftian
> magical
> >>> activities often disregard the considerable and growing
> body of Lovecraft
> >>> (literary) criticism.
> >>> And, although I
> >>> tend not to look to an author's intentions for an
> appreciation of her or
> >>> his works, Lovecraft seems not to have been successful at
> getting the
> >>> supernatural out of his stories, as far as many of his
> readers are
> >>> concerned.
> >>>
> >>> Another observation. The version of the Mythos that magical
> >>> practitioners (that I've met) often turn to is not
> strictly Lovecraft's. It
> >>> is the later expansion and reorganization carried out by
> August Derleth and
> >>> the Arkham House editions. Derleth had no issue with the
> supernatural in
> >>> the Mythos, and regularized the Mythos pantheon according
> to widespread
> >>> occultural notions.
> >>>
> >>> Musing I Have Met Yog-Sothoth & ........ Rose,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pitch
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Justin Woodman
> >> Course Convenor
> >> Integrated Degree in Social Anthropology
> >> Department of Professional and Community Education
> >> Goldsmiths College
> >> New Cross
> >> London SE14 6NW
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ty Falk
> ~~~~~~~
> Erisian
> Anthropologist
> Grand Rapids, MI, USA
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