Well I think this hits the fundamental division between the recons and
the hermetic Pagans I know. The recons believe in an existent literal
polytheism grounded in history and heritage where as the hermetic (and
fluffies) tend to see them as archetypes of psycological truths.
Depends on your underlying epistemological basis of faith. In a sense
its why I am increasingly seeing neo-Paganism splitting between
historicist and archetypal practitioners given that their respective
world views are increasingly becoming incompatible.
Cheers
David
D E wrote:
> I see nothing odd with having a trekkie mythos ritual
>
> I think it was Phil Hine who made the two points that (a) if ritual
> participants know Star Trek and not Greek myths there is no point in
> hitting them with a Greek mythic ritual when Star Trek characters have
> far more resonance with them and (b) a lot of things in Star Trek (and
> all modern tv culture) are Greek myths reworked in any case. Star Trek
> has an inner cohesion and set of rules (much like cabbala) and could
> be regarded as a mythic cycle... the main difference is lack of
> longevity- Greek myths are merely older, but how much "more true" are
> they? Hard to work out a unit of measure on that front...
>
> dave a
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* David Waldron <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 18, 2008 11:26 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Lovecraft- was A question
> about Ganesh
>
> In any case Lovecraft didn't really have a systematized mythos per
> se. It was put onto his work retrospectively by fans and, of
> course, August Derleth. I think it tends to problematise the kind
> of hermetic reading some chaos magicians etc give to his work.
> Personally I find the use of the fictionalised characters a little
> odd and exist because he is an esoteric writer who is gothic and
> cool from a late 20th C point of view. It seems to me pretty much
> the same as some D&D pagans I knew a while back who used Takhisis
> and Paladine as imago die. I wonder if people follow David
> Eddings deities. :-P It would be all cutesy idealized rural New
> England. I've heard of a group using Star Trek characters for
> that matter. I am sure the Discordians would love that sort of
> thing and it makes my recon friends and contacts burst out laughing.
> David
>
>
>
> Daniel Harms wrote:
>> I wouldn't put it quite in those terms. I see there being numerous different "Lovecrafts" - the Lovecraft of "The Dunwich Horror", the Lovecraft of "The Hound", the Lovecraft of "At the Mountains of Madness", the Lovecraft of his letters (who could in turn be several Lovecrafts) - and different people take the Lovecraft they want. Sure, Lovecraft says in "At the Mountains..." that the Old Ones are aliens, but you don't have to listen to him.
>>
>> Plus, it might not be quite so much of a tension. Lovecraft himself used his mechanistic materialism to justify his personal aesthetics - if the universe really doesn't have a special place for humanity, then seeking out enjoyment and fulfillment in art is perfectly justifiable. I think the chaos magicians differ from him insofar as they do not turn to traditional forms as Lovecraft did, and that they believe their art work on a level other than the artistic.
>>
>> Dan Harms
>> Coordinator of Instruction Librarian
>> State University of New York - Cortland
>> Memorial Library B-110
>> (607) - 753-4042
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic on behalf of Justin Woodman
>> Sent: Sun 2/17/2008 5:42 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Lovecraft- was A question about Ganesh
>>
>>
>>
>> I pretty much agree with much of the below - the use of the
>> Derleth-influenced Simon Necronomicon as the 'authoritative' text on the
>> Lovecraft mythos being a case in point.
>>
>> Although I tend to think of Lovecraft as being either misread or
>> misunderstood in many occultural recensions of his work, I do think that a
>> tension exists between Lovecraft's mechanistic materialism and a kind of
>> romantic Gnostic sensibility sometimes found in his letters and fiction
>> - a tension which inadvertantly allows for a more 'supernaturalist'
>> interpretation of his work.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>>
>>> I've noticed that those enthusiastic about Lovecraftian magical
>>> activities often disregard the considerable and growing body of Lovecraft
>>> (literary) criticism.
>>> And, although I
>>> tend not to look to an author's intentions for an appreciation of her or
>>> his works, Lovecraft seems not to have been successful at getting the
>>> supernatural out of his stories, as far as many of his readers are
>>> concerned.
>>>
>>> Another observation. The version of the Mythos that magical
>>> practitioners (that I've met) often turn to is not strictly Lovecraft's. It
>>> is the later expansion and reorganization carried out by August Derleth and
>>> the Arkham House editions. Derleth had no issue with the supernatural in
>>> the Mythos, and regularized the Mythos pantheon according to widespread
>>> occultural notions.
>>>
>>> Musing I Have Met Yog-Sothoth & ........ Rose,
>>>
>>>
>>> Pitch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Justin Woodman
>> Course Convenor
>> Integrated Degree in Social Anthropology
>> Department of Professional and Community Education
>> Goldsmiths College
>> New Cross
>> London SE14 6NW
>>
>>
>>
>
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