FREEFLAG (the program which is used to generate the test set)
description says when describing the keyword SEED:
By default, for a given job on a given machine, the random number
generator produces the same list of "random" free-R flags each time the
job is run. Since you would generally only produce one list of free-R
flags for each project, this is not usually a problem. However, if you
specify the keyword SEED, then the random number generator is seeded
with the current time, and will produce a different list of free-R flags
each time the job is run.
So what you see is normal.
Zheng Zhou wrote:
> Sorry that I didn't explain the situation clearly. I used only one
> output.sca file from HLK2000. I ran the scalepack2mtz (in CCP4i, data
> reduction, import merged data) several times, on both linux Fedora and
> window XP, the same computer though.
>
> For the next step refinement, I mean add H2O, ion, ligands, double
> check certain sidechains.... In those refmac runs, I always use the
> same mtz file, which I generated from the beginning. I am as surprised
> as you are the Rfree flags are identical from those different "first"
> runs.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Jan 23, 2008 9:50 AM, Zheng Zhou <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Hi, All
>
> Could any tell me how CCP4 handle free R flag? I know It is
> important to select the same FreeR reflections if I move to next
> step of refinement. But everytime I start from fresh, the freeR
> Flag remains unchanged. The Rwork and Rfree of my models are fine
> ( 20.7% and 22.9%). I thought Rfree was randomly generated. I
> asked more experienced people in the lab and neighbor labs, and
> didn't get a straight answer. Did I do something wrong?
>
> Thanks and sorry to bother others.
>
> Zheng (Joe)
>
> I cant understand this.
> Do you mean you have multiple data sets and they all generate the same
> FreeRs? If you have EXACTLY the same reflection list, and generate FreeR
> flags on the same machine I guess they would be the same.. but it would
> be surprising
>
> Or if you are using the same file which already has FreeR flags then
> they wont change of course - the default is always to use the
> reflections flagged with FreeR = 0. (Thats as it should be..)
>
> By the by - your agreement between R and FreeR seems unusually low
> unless you have very high resolution data or a great deal of
> non-crystallographic symmetry.
> Eleanor
>
> Zheng - I am not sure what you are doing, but as long as you work
> with one dataset only, you generate the free reflections at the very
> beginning when you import your data into CCP4. Then use the resulting
> mtz file for all following refinement steps. There are situations
> where one will have to deviate from this scheme, but those are rare.
> If you feel you have such a case, then tell us more about it. Hope
> that helps. Best - MM
>
> Joe,
>
>
> can you explain a bit clearer your problem? what do you mean the
> 'next step of refinement'? are you just doing another round of
> refinement? what program are you using, REFMAC5? also, R/Rfree of
> 20.7/22.9 is pretty good, depending on resolution.
>
> yes, you are right, Rfree flags are generated randomly and can be
> anywhere from 5-10% of your reflections (your choice). then, once the
> Rfree flagged reflections are selected, they will not change (nor be
> refined) throughout the rest of your structure determination. they
> should have their own column in your *.mtz file called RfreeFlag or
> something like this (in CCP4 that is). other programs handle this
> relatively the same, but may use various naming conventions. one
> caveat is that CCP4 flags reflections using 0 by default (meaning 5%
> of your reflections are flagged with 0 and are the Rfree set). Other
> programs such as CNS and PHENIX use 1 by default, so be careful when
> switching back and forth. You can tell either program which to use
> for Rfree set, but needs to be set, since it is not default.
>
> again, not exactly sure what the problem is, but i hope some of this
> helps. feel free to email with further questions if needed. best of
> luck!
>
>
>
> cheers,
> nick
>
--
Edwin Pozharski, PhD, Assistant Professor
University of Maryland, Baltimore
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When the Way is forgotten duty and justice appear;
Then knowledge and wisdom are born along with hypocrisy.
When harmonious relationships dissolve then respect and devotion arise;
When a nation falls to chaos then loyalty and patriotism are born.
------------------------------ / Lao Tse /
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