Yes, Owain, - but I do still feel a reflection on the ethical [anxieties?, forms etc] would be worth it.
[ie not myself wholly sure of the concern and its relevance]
Best
David
[and a greeting all round! a `crouch`, blue door]
>>> owain jones <[log in to unmask]> 12/12/07 8:10 PM >>>
Cheers David
I am sort of with you re taking photos in public.
I was just struck how the BBC programme showed 'art photographers' taking
pictures of strangers as they walked by - often quite close up. The contrast
with all the ethical protocol/concerns 'we' go through was interesting I
thought. I got no further than that really. All this was before Mags' email,
but that prompted me.
Cheers
Owain Jones
mobile: 07871 572969
office: 01242 715315
home: 01761 472908
Research Fellow
Countryside and Community Research Institute
Dunholme Villa, Park Campus
Cheltenham, GL50 2RH
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: A forum for critical and radical geographers
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Crouch
Sent: 12 December 2007 18:16
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo surveys in public places
Hello Mags, Owain, everybody
I know Owain`s point re prof phtographers, it`s a common practice amongst
their good work - but are we not more concerned on ethical rights of our
`chosen subjects`; I feel we shd be. Oterhwise exploitative for our onw
purpose.
best
David
>>> owain jones <[log in to unmask]> 12/12/07 1:41 PM >>>
A number of thoughts
1. Some key/famous studies of children in the city, (Ward, Moore, Berg)
relied on photographic surveys in city spaces. Doing this is vastly more
problematic now but some researchers are sort of managing it (I have an
example if anyone wants detail). What is being discussed here adds yet
another dimension/challenge to this methodology.
2. In relation to David's C comments on ethics privacy etc and the whole
rights thing, it was interesting to see eminent photographers taking street
scene photos in New York without seemingly any qualms about ethics or
legality in the 'street photography' episode of the BBC 4 series the Genius
of Photography. In fact a lot of the images used in that series are of urban
life taken, one assumes, without permission from the subject or anyone
else.
3. It would be interesting to actually test this by a number of people
going to city centres and very visibly taking pictures and then reporting
back.
4. In the interest of raising geography's public profile, and this issue,
could not someone take this story and get some news/media interest in it??
It could be based up the original experience of Mags the exchanges and the
above proposed experiment.
cheers
Owain Jones
mobile: 07871 572969
office: 01242 715315
home: 01761 472908
Research Fellow
Countryside and Community Research Institute
Dunholme Villa, Park Campus
Cheltenham, GL50 2RH
[log in to unmask]
_____
From: A forum for critical and radical geographers
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of D F J Wood
Sent: 12 December 2007 12:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo surveys in public places
This is true and it's been going on for a while, but the fact remains that
they still have no legal right to restrict the photographic activities of
the public in open streets, whatever their employees or associated
organisations may say. It's vital not to let the 'facts on the ground'
(i.e.: threats and intimidation by poorly trained wannabe police associated
with an urban management agency) to prevail over either law or natural
justice. The police I have talked to are often quite uneasy about the rise
of plastic police: they appreciate that 'bodies on the street' give a
feeling of greater safety to many members of the public, but they are
worried about the levels of ignorance and training and the overstepping of
their (very limited) powers. It is worth noting that the legal powers
available to these people who, let's just emphasise again, are basically
jumped up traffic wardens, park keepers and bouncers, are increasing
however, bit by bit...
David.
_____
From: A forum for critical and radical geographers
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Cook
Sent: 12 December 2007 11:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Photo surveys in public places
Hi,
Phil Hubbard is correct. CV One are a Town Centre Management (TCM)
partnership. In 1997 they were on the receiving end of the largest ever
'stock transfer' (aka privatisation) of city centre services in the UK
(including street cleaning, the warden service, street trading licenses,
CCTV). They have subsequently developed or were given other
economic/policing services since then (e.g. marketing for the whole of
Warwickshire, retail radio scheme, PubWatch, the Evening Ambassadors-a night
time version of the wardens). Similar schemes exist up and down the UK, but
few have quite the amount of once-council services as CV One or the amount
of council funding. As of 2005, CV One are also funded by a small levy on
local business occupiers in their Business Improvement District (BID)
scheme.
My PhD research is on CV One and two similar TCM/BID partnerships in
Plymouth and Reading. Three findings for my research relate to this
discussion:
First, it is interesting to note how economic development-orientated
partnerships are accuring more and more policing services under the belief
that (middle class) consumption and investment is more likely to happen in
'safer' spaces.
Second, echoing partnerships elsewhere, the retail radio, wardens, Evening
Ambassadors and CCTV team are all highly linked up and co-ordinated. They
also work more and more with the police and their PCSOs - CV One, the police
and PCSOs have morning meetings every day so quite why the PCSOs don't know
who CV One are is beyond me!
Third and finally, TCM partnerships are expanding their operations beyond
the city centre. In several places such as Coventry, they are taking up city
council services such as CCTV, marketing, economic development in
geographical areas beyond the city centre. (So watch out!)
I did a presentation on this at the AAG - if anyone wants a look here it is:
http://www.sed.manchester.ac.uk/geography/postgraduate/research/currentstude
nts/documents/cook8.pdf
Thanks,
Ian
----- Original Message ----
From: Mags Adams <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 December, 2007 4:20:04 PM
Subject: Photo surveys in public places
Hi all,
I had an interesting experience yesterday while undertaking a site-visit of
Coventry city centre where my colleagues and I will be doing fieldwork in
January. Four of us were in the city centre looking for locations to use as
part of a soundwalk. We were taking notes about the locations we were in
and photographs in four directions (N, S, E, W). The research is a project
about urban soundscapes (The Positive Soundscape Project) and we intend to
take people on soundwalks in three cities to discuss observations about
sound in the urban environment. We visited a number of locations in the
city centre without incident, but when we were taking pictures in an
outdoor, pedestrianised shopping precinct we were approached by two security
men in fluorescent jackets. One of my colleagues at the other side of the
square was simultaneously approached by two PCSOs. The two security people
told us we could not take photos in public places as it was against the
law!! We explained what we were doing and who we were and they said we
needed permission to take pictures and that we could get that from an
organisation called CV1 - they seemed a bit unclear who CV1 were - they
aren't police, but they didn't confirm they were a private security company
either. They said they were the city centre management team. It appears we
were in a highly observed CCTV area and eventually a fifth person appeared -
this time from CV1 - to tell us we would have to have permission from them
to continue with our work. They were all very polite and it appears that it
won't be a problem to obtain this 'permission' but I do have some queries
about this as it feels like an infringement of personal freedoms - is it?
Does anyone know the law about taking photos in public places? And what
about quasi-public (probably privately owned) spaces? Is this an
'anti-terrorism' reaction or is there another reason for this? Has anyone
else experienced this type of thing when conducting their research? In the
past I've used participant-directed photo-surveys as a key methodology for
my work and am now concerned that I won't be able to ask people to go out
into their communities to take photos as I could be putting them in a
difficult position. What do you think?
I know there's lots of issues tied up in all this but perhaps some of you
have been through this yourselves?
Mags
Dr Mags Adams
Senior Research Fellow
Acoustics Research Cen tre
Newton Building
University of Salford
Salford M5 4WT
Tel: +44 (0)161 295 4599
Email: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
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