Hi Erwin,
(part of the reason for replying to this email is to get the original
onto the UK tb-support list as this is where most of the discussion is
happening about this)
Erwin Laure wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Thanks for raising this point. A few observations:
>
> The "full management encouragement" was related to the work, not using a
> particular VO.
>
> To me, this "issue" boils down to the question whether the work is
> inline with the biomed AUP and that's something the biomed VO manager
> needs to decide. If the answer is "no" then a new VO should be created
> for this work; if the answer is "yes" but some sites still have
> problems, then probably some negotiations on refining the AUP need to
> take place.
>
> I don't think we should talk about an "incident" in this case. It's
> merely a question whether VO resources have been used according to the
> VO purpose or not.
>
> A "challenge VO" is a possibility, probably to be discussed in the OAG.
I think that you summarise the situation very well indeed. I doubt that
biomed will view this as part of its remit and so I think that the
setting up of a challenge VO sooner rather later would be a good idea.
Although I would disagree about calling this an "incident". I think that
any occasion when a user/VO are being banned from a large number of
sites for abuse is an "incident".
All the best,
david
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Erwin
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Colling [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:21 AM
>> To: Testbed Support for GridPP member institutes;
>> [log in to unmask]; Erwin Laure; Bob Jones
>> Subject: Re: Heinz' Challenge
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I cc'ed Heinz, Bob and Erwin on this email but they seem to
>> have been stripped out by JISCMAIL. I think that it could be
>> valuable to include them in discussion on this point (which
>> is why I cc'ed them in the first
>> place) so people might want to cc them directly as well.
>>
>> All the best,
>> david
>>
>> David Colling wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I mailed Heinz with the concerns expressed here and on the
>> dteam list
>>> about him running RSA-768 challenge jobs under the biomed
>> VO and this
>>> being seen as abuse. I also asked about the size of the
>> jobs being a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Dealing with the second point first...
>>> Heinz' reply was that he did put the size of the job in the
>> JDL so it
>>> was only running at sites that were advertising that they
>> could cope
>>> with such jobs - as ours must have been (Mona and Kostas,
>> please can
>>> you look at this for our site as clearly we cannot cope
>> with more than
>>> 2 per
>>> 4 core machine).
>>>
>>> On the first point...
>>> (Heinz, please correct me if I am wrong.)
>>>
>>> Heinz said that he was indeed running as part of this challenge and
>>> was doing so with the full encouragement of Bob and
>> Erwinwho were very
>>> keen to see the results. He was doing this as biomed
>> because of a lack
>>> of any other VO that was any more appropriate.
>>>
>>> Explained in these terms I can see all sides of this discussion as
>>> having some validity. I can see why "the management" are
>> keen perform
>>> very well in such challenges. Heinz is only a member of the
>> biomed VO
>>> and besides, currently, there isn't an appropriate VO for this work.
>>> Equally, I can see that a site like Glasgow (chosen only because
>>> Graeme has the hard numbers) viewing it as abuse that 50,000 CPU
>>> hours that they thought were going on biomedical research
>> being used
>>> on this challenge, especially when they have very many
>> queuing Atlas
>>> jobs. While they might be very happy to be part of this
>> challenge (or
>>> may not be I haven't asked) they would probably haven given
>> it a lower
>>> priority than biomedical research. Clearly, the answer is
>> to set up up
>>> a challenge VO that people can support in its own right for such
>>> things (and can give it whatever priority they want). Is this
>>> something that we should do in the UK or should be
>> somewhere else (or
>>> doesn't it matter where ;-)
>>>
>>> There was the further problem that raising tickets against biomed
>>> didn't get any response for sometime and then I don't get the
>>> impression that they had actually made it as far as Heinz.
>> Showing a communication issue.
>>> This incident has caused quite a problem, resulting in Heinz/biomed
>>> being banned from large (and increasing) fraction of UK
>> sites for abuse.
>>> I would suggest both that this ban be lifted and that a
>> challenge VO
>>> is set up for this sort of thing sooner rather than later.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> david
|