Emile de Sousa said:

"I think you're right, but I sympathise with those who say that they
sometimes take the easier option. Mind you, we charge £50 to validate
the referral, and that tends to lead to a few slammed doors too."

Tom Sargant said:

"Can you charge for private referrals? Or is this "validation" some
way round that?

If so details please ;¬)"

Charging for validating the referral (ie signing a form for the
patient to enable them to claim money or services with a value) is not
only acceptable but is sound business practice, as it goes toward
guaranteeing the income of the practice.

Charging for the referral on the other hand is specifically prohibited
in the GP contract.  I can quote the relevant sections of the regs if
you wish, but it makes me appear to be somewhat single-minded.  (My
knowledge is purely for personal gain of course - how else can one
argue from a position of strength with the PCT when they wish to try
something out which might be said by me to be outwith the contract?)

Russell

On 29/11/2007, North Mike (F81717) Maylandsea Medical Cent CM3 6AH
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Many years ago, patients used to bring in forms for us to sign, for which we
> charged. I've not seen one of these for years. I heard at the time that they
> were getting the consultant to sign them instead, which seemed to make a
> mockery of any sort of gatekeeping role.
>
>
>
> It seems very odd that BUPA etc don't ask us to confirm in some way that we
> think it appropriate that they should shell out for the referral. It would
> seem very much in their interest to do so.
>
>
>
> Is there any BMA guidance on charging for referring, 'validating' or
> 'screening' in these situations?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: Paul Miller [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>  Sent: 28 November 2007 19:35
>  To: [log in to unmask]
>  Subject: Re: Do I have to refer privately?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>  How much are BUPA paying you to do their screening for them?  Can I get
> some?
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28/11/2007, Paul Bromley < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I think you are probably both correct. However, faced with this
>  situation I would opt for the easy life. I personally think that BUPA
>  encourages this by telling the patients to get the form signed.
>  Increasingly these days with NHS patients if they are demanding
>  referral I refer - however I do state in the referral that the patinet
>  is demanding referral. Perhaps not in this case, but there is a no-win
>  situation if the patient subsequently had pathology and did not refer.
>  I am NOT a high referrer.
>
>  Paul Bromley
>
>  On 28/11/2007, Geoff Schrecker < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>  > I think you are a trained clinician, and if you don't think he will
>  > benefit from physio, but say yes so that he can claim from BUPA you
>  > are colluding in fraud. You have done right.
>  >
>  > Cheers Geoff
>  >
>  > On Nov 28, 2007 5:41 PM, North Mike (F81717) Maylandsea Medical Cent
>  > CM3 6AH < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Just had a patient slam out because I have said that I do not think his
>  > > ankle requires physio. (Turned it over yesterday, minimal bruising and
>  > > swelling, walking normally, needing no analgesia). He insists that as
> he
>  > > belongs to a scheme that he is entitled to use it on each and every
> occasion
>  > > that he wishes (several previous referrals). I feel I have a duty to
> refer
>  > > only if I think it appropriate, not on demand, and that is why BUPA
> have
>  > > told him to ask me for a referral. I have said that I am happy to
> discuss it
>  > > with BUPA if they care to phone me. He is quite sure that if he asked
> the
>  > > physio if it needed physio he would say yes. I agree that he would!,
> and
>  > > BUPA know that, and that's why they ask him to see me first rather than
>  > > self-refer.
>  > >
>  > > What do you think?
>  > >
>  > > Mike
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments unless by prior
>  > arrangement.
>  > See
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>  >
>
>
>  --
>  Best Wishes
>
>  Paul Bromley
>
>  www.informatiks.com
>  Custom EMIS LV Software.
>  vuE | GPLabels | GPDocs | eGFRChecker
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  Dr Paul Miller
>  Tel: 07711-346-928
>  http://visionblogged.blogspot.com