Very fine indeed, Joanna. Thanks for sharing them. (I think it is part of a
poet's calling to knock down fences, or at least reposition them.)
Andrew
On 14/10/2007, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Andrew, Martin -- here's an upside-downer of mine, which you may or may
> not
> feel is outside the traditional frame. The change of person between the
> two
> sonnets in the pair is because they're from my book about Shostakovich,
> and
> are meant to illustrate the fact that he hated talking about himself but
> would talk about the sufferings of others, and it was then up to the
> listener to add the 'reflection'. The line "a man without a memory's a
> dead
> man" is pretty much a quotation from the composer, according to Volkov.
>
> Mirror Fugue
>
>
> The truly-dead are those that are forgot,
>
> and a man without a memory's a dead man.
>
> He will tell you everything he can.
>
> Friends, relatives, acquaintances, the never-met --
>
>
>
> their fates still bruise him. Listen:
>
> the slow drips of tears, of heartbreak,
>
> freeze and refreeze. His grief is glazed
>
> as Leningrad's winter waterways
>
> deepen, deepen by reflection
>
> till the ice is far too thick to crack.
>
>
>
>
> He sees their faces through his frozen tears
>
> and finds himself mirrored with them.
>
> You want him to sing under this ice?
>
> today he has only the one theme.
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
>
> Today I have only one theme.
>
> You want me to sing under this ice
>
> and find myself, mirrored with them?
>
> I see their faces through my frozen tears
>
>
>
> (this ice which is far too thick to crack)
>
> deepened, deepened by reflection,
>
> as Leningrad's winter waterways
>
> freeze and refreeze. My grief is glazed
>
> in the slow drip of tears, of heartbreak.
>
> Their fates bruise me still. Listen,
>
>
>
> friends, relatives, acquaintances, the never-met,
>
> I will tell you everything I can,
>
> for a man without a memory's a dead man.
>
> Truly, the dead are those that are forgot.
>
>
> joanna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "andrew burke" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Sonnets (Re: Sonnet for the Criminally Insane )
>
>
> Here's a recent one, Martin, which is further outside the traditional
> frame:
>
>
> *A**n Upside-down Sonnet*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> 'I'll give you to the next passing Chinaman',
>
> my mother would say.
>
> It was the Fifties and such things were said
>
> without malice
>
> for there were few passing Chinamen
>
> in our home town.
>
>
>
> Fifty six years later I am
>
> an Australian man passing
>
> and Chinese kids look up at me
>
> without prejudice—a living
>
> breathing specimen
>
> of Western decadence,
>
> the Coca-Cola culture come
>
> flying over their wall.
>
>
>
> (As far as I know, Dorothy Hewett first did the upside down bit, but as I
> was in the southern hemisphere, I thought upside down was appropriate ...)
>
>
>
> On 14/10/2007, Martin Dolan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > The answer varies, I think, depending on whether you take the
> > Shakespearian or the Petrarchan as your template.
> >
> > For me, the Shakespearian is didactic, with that last couplet (or two
> > lines if we're not using rhyme) thumping out the intended point, and
> > less dependent on the volta. The Petrarchan, though, seems constructed
> > around that change between the octave and the sestet and what you
> > balance between the two.
> >
> > I've written the latter unrhymed and they still seem sonnet-like to me.
> > I've relaxed the metre until it disappears and it feels like a sonnet.
> > That basic eight/six line division seems to be the key.
> >
> > Don't know about Shakespearian - never been able to do them
> successfully.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > Joanna Boulter wrote:
> > > Yes I know, the exception rather than the rule, and a matter for
> > > comment. It might be interesting to look at a few of them, and see
> > > what actually does make them sonnets rather than thirteen-line poems.
> > > *If we can find enough examples that we can agree on as being true
> > > examples.
> > >
> > > But to my mind, a sonnet is more than just the number of its lines,
> > > and I suspect that this is what Kasper's feeling here, possibly Janet
> > > too. I mean, not all four-legged animals are dogs -- there are
> > > differentials that mark them out instantly from cats. Nor do the
> > > tailless Manx cat and the boxer dog with the docked tail cloud the
> > > issue there.
> > >
> > > I suspect it's something to do with the way they move and behave, but
> > > would be interested to see what others think.
> > >
> > > joanna
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "andrew burke" <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 12:21 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Sonnets (Re: Sonnet for the Criminally Insane )
> > >
> > >
> > >> There have been 13 line sonnets in history, y'know ...
> > >>
> > >> Andrew
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 14/10/2007, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Good questions, Janet, especially that last para.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have a habit of writing short poems which turn out to be
> 13-liners.
> > A
> > >>> surprising number of people say "Why don't you add another line, and
> > >>> then
> > >>> it'll be a sonnet?" My answer is usually "It doesn't want to be one
> > >>> -- and
> > >>> yes, I did ask it!" However, the real reason I don't is more likely
> > >>> that
> > >>> I've said what I need to say in 13 lines and can see no point in
> > >>> adding a
> > >>> 14th for the sake of it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Having said that, though, I can and do write sonnets.
> > >>>
> > >>> joanna
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Janet Jackson" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 2:52 AM
> > >>> Subject: Sonnets (Re: Sonnet for the Criminally Insane )
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> >> Mine are non-metrical, non-rhyming (for the most part)
> > >>> >> sonnets. The sonnet's a broad, deep river with interesting
> > >>> >> eddies at its margins.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > OK, Hal, please would you educate us?
> > >>> > What makes a poem a sonnet, and not just a 14-line poem?
> > >>> > That it presents an opinion?
> > >>> > That the lines are longish and all about the same length?
> > >>> > That if you really work at it you read it with five stresses per
> > >>> line?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I have a book somewhere that claims sonnets should have
> > >>> > a "volta", a twist at about line 9, but I don't see that
> > >>> > in this one.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I suspect Kasper is more interested in why you bother labelling
> > >>> > it a sonnet, what your purpose is in doing that.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Janet
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> > Janet Jackson <[log in to unmask]>
> > >>> > www.myspace.com/poetjj
> > >>> > www.proximity.webhop.net
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Allegedly, some kid poet came over to Robert Frost at some
> > >>> gathering > and
> > >>> > introduced himself by saying "I'm a poet." Frost replied "That's
> a
> > >>> > praise word. I'd wait 'til someone else called me that."
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Andrew
> > >> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> > >> http://www.inblogs.net/hispirits
> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/aburke/
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew
> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> http://www.inblogs.net/hispirits
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/aburke/
>
--
Andrew
http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
http://www.inblogs.net/hispirits
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aburke/
|