Regarding -
> I know, in response to Wendy's request for us to take the statement on
> poverty and inequality forward and the silence has been deafening in
> relation to the challenges raised in connection with war etc by you and
> others associated with the Birmingham Manifesto.
I for one haven't ignored Wendy's post about the poverty statement and
hope to have a proper look at it in the next few days - but I hope others
are also pausing to consider properly - we do need to present something
substantial and well worked out.
But I am puzzled too by the imbalance between the resounding silence in
response to both the original Birmingham manifesto (and Wendy's subsequent
post on the poverty statement) and the very impressive activity re the
Layard/CBT question. Is it just that the latter is more familiar
terriotory for psychologists, nad that the task of constructing a
politically and economically literate 'really social psychology' is just
too alien, ennerving, big?

Mark


> Thanks Carl and also the person who posted me off list about Tarantino,
>
> I put my hand up - I have not seen Death Proof and have been considering
> not only boycotting it myself but also considering joining any
> demonstration which is mounted to invite people going to reconsider
> going. I am a keen film goer, sometimes go to the cinema three times a
> week and that is not even in Edinburgh Film Festival time! I am also
> opposed to artistic censorship. So my position on Death Proof is not
> without dilemmas for me. I have seen other Tarantino films, and though I
> am not a big admirer of his work in general I really liked Jackie Brown,
> which I have watched repeatedly on DVD (mostly because I like the
> soundtrack so much) and I do accept that Tarantino is a technically
> brilliant Director.
>
> My qualms about Death Proof are based on an appearance of Tarantino on
> Jonathon Ross' TV show, reading reviews and hearing young men discuss
> why they are looking forward to seeing the film i.e. the part which
> Death Proof will play culturally in anaesthetising people to misogyny. I
> accept the general criticism that it is better to see a film before one
> forms a judgement about it but on the other hand I would not need to
> watch pornography which involved any one of any age being sexually
> abused or killed on screen before objecting to it being made or
> screened. In objecting to what is accomplished for which interests
> through the public screening and debate about Death Proof (which I fear
> will be to fuel misogyny). I am not objecting to the intentions of the
> Director or the actors or even those who go to see in much the same way
> as when I object to CBT I am objecting to the oppression achieved
> ideologically through CBT and not suggesting that individual CBT
> technicians are oppressive. This is to be settled - it seems to me - not
> by an analysis of the movie itself but a discursive analysis of the
> texts (conversations, reviews, etc) which result from and are occasioned
> by the film. Any public demonstration urging people to think about
> misogyny in the context of film seems to me useful. I would prefer to
> think about your point about my condescending sexism in relation to
> stuntwomen before reacting other than to say that I am as appalled by
> the exploitation, putting at risk and sexual abuse of male actors as I
> am by that of female actors.
>
> Since an e- blether with Paul Duckett (thanks Paul), it has struck me as
> interesting what members of this list are getting energised about. We
> have just put a lot of impressive collective effort into generating
> press releases etc about CBT but there has been no uptake yet, as far as
> I know, in response to Wendy's request for us to take the statement on
> poverty and inequality forward and the silence has been deafening in
> relation to the challenges raised in connection with war etc by you and
> others associated with the Birmingham Manifesto. Now we are discussing a
> movie. Two people raised issues of gendered power and I developed that
> to raise the issue of misogyny. In your reply you acknowledge that point
> 'in general' in half a line and then use ten times as much space to talk
> about Death Proof. Are CBT and the movie business so much more
> important on a CBT list in relation to psychological toxicity and
> injustice than poverty and war that we need to devote so much more time
> and effort on them?
>
> I very much regret having raised the Taranto film as an issue if it will
> deflect attention away from the much more important issues being raised
> on the list about oppression structured by gender and the opportunity
> afforded to engage with the appalling problems of misogyny and
> oppressive gendered power more widely
>
> David
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carl Walker
> Sent: 24 October 2007 07:03
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: should we really be circulating this kind of stuff on our
> list?
>
>
> Dear David,
>
>
>
> Agree with your point about grid girls and misogyny in general but not
> sure what you are saying about Death Proof. I assume from your use of
> the word 'understand' that you have yet to see the film. While I accept
> that it's a Tarantino film I would imagine its worth seeing this story
> in context before organizing a protest. Moreover the point about the
> stuntwoman bothers me. Since one imagines that stuntmen are regularly
> paid on film sets to perform dangerous stunts on fast moving vehicles I
> do not see the value in protesting about the use of stunt women. Unless
> you plan to protest about stunt people in general I suspect you will be
> straying into the realm of condescending sexism.
>
> I could be misunderstanding your point but in this case I believe you
> are over-reacting.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Carl
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of David
> Fryer
> Sent: Tue 23/10/2007 21:14
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: should we really be circulating this kind of stuff on our list?
>
>
> Dear Suzanne,
>
> Thanks for posting this.
>
> 'To add some more fun to motor racing a friend helped the team out and
> brought over some grid girls from a professional touring car racing
> team. Paige & Tillie, both British models, come to all the Clio Cup race
> meetings. "They were awesome! This is one of the things many motor sport
> enthusiasts love. They love the competition, they love the racing and
> the crashes, but they also love all the grid girls!" Niki said proudly.'
>
>
> I for one am uncomfortable with references to women as 'girls', don't
> like women being positioned as objects to be 'brought over' to 'add fun'
> and don't like the association of competitive speeding, car crashes and
> women as enjoyable spectator sport. I appreciate the word 'grid' has a
> specialist use in motor racing circles, but find the expression 'grid
> girls' very unpleasant indeed with its sexist, heterosexist and
> misogynist resonances.
>
> I have been thinking about these issues because the University film
> theatre here is about to screen Tarantino's 'Death Proof' in which I
> understand within the film a high powered car driven at speed is used to
> kill women and in the making of which a stuntwoman carried out
> extremely dangerous stunts on a fast moving vehicle and I have been
> wondering whether protest against the film screening is called for.
>
> In case anyone thinks it over-reacting to object to this material, I
> would say that misogyny is an appallingly widespread and deeply
> entrenched evil in our society and needs to be contested on every
> occasion he shows his head
>
> David
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Suzanne
> Elliott
> Sent: Tue 10/23/2007 10:32
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Niki Lanik raced at Thruxton for Human Rights
>
>
>
> Thank goodness for those 'grid girls', eh? Good cause I'm sure, but
> should we really be circulating this kind of stuff on our list?
>
>
>
> suzanne
>
>
>
> Suzanne Elliott
>
> Clinical Psychologist
>
> Treatment & Recovery Services
>
> Swithland House (CTT East)
>
> London Rd
>
> Leicester
>
> LE2 2PL
>
> 0116 225 5600
>
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Newnes
> Sent: 23 October 2007 10:18
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Fw: Niki Lanik raced at Thruxton for Human Rights
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Craig Newnes AOL <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:58 PM
>
> Subject: Fw: Niki Lanik raced at Thruxton for Human Rights
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Niki Lanik - Race Driver <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Cc: [log in to unmask]
>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 12:52 AM
>
> Subject: Niki Lanik raced at Thruxton for Human Rights
>
>
>
> TOP 5 RACERS CRASH AT THRUXTON
> -
> LANIK IS EDGING CLOSER TO THE PODIUM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NIKI Lanik and the Youth 4 Human Rights Racing Team, supporting the
> worthy cause of Human Rights, raced at Thruxton last weekend qualifying
> 8th and 4th for the final 2 rounds of the 2007 Clio Cup Championship.
> Saturday's race was ended due to a crash involving Niki Lanik and four
> other top drivers - they all walked away un-hurt but shocked. The
> weekend was action packed with LIVE Sky coverage, ITV Sport shooting
> teams, and 25,000+ motorsport enthusiasts, all accompanied by perfect
> weather.
>
> Thruxton, the Hampshire-based racing circuit, is famous for being the
> fastest circuit in Britain. Niki Lanik's Clio race car averages 100mph
> per lap, reaching a mere 140mph on the long straight. The Austrian race
> driver, Lanik, was looking very good in the 30-minute qualifying
> session, setting two good laps earning him 8th and 4th on the grid out
> of well over 30 keen racing drivers. To add some more fun to motor
> racing a friend helped the team out and brought over some grid girls
> from a professional touring car racing team. Paige & Tillie, both
> British models, come to all the Clio Cup race meetings. "They were
> awesome! This is one of the things many motorsport enthusiasts love.
> They love the competition, they love the racing and the crashes, but
> they also love all the grid girls!" Niki said proudly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 20-year old Niki Lanik had a great start from the 8th slot on the grid
> in Saturday's race. Due to a safety car incident Niki was forced to
> settle in 9th place for the time being, but once the safety car period
> was over, Niki stormed through the field all the way to 5th position,
> overtaking the championship leader, Martin Byford, during his charge.
> Niki then challenged 3rd and 4th placed Ben Winrow and Paul Rivett, 3
> laps before the end of the race, when suddenly Niki's steering went
> light. The two other drivers encountering the same phenomenon and Niki
> had no control whatsoever sliding off the track and hitting the crashed
> cars of the 1st and 2nd place racers, Robert Lawson and Chris Hodgetts.
> All drivers including Niki were not injured, but to say the least, quite
> shocked.
>
> "It was very strange. None of us saw really saw the yellow flags, and we
> don't have comm systems with our pit lane team, so us top 5 drivers,
> being 2-3 seconds apart, had no idea what the situation at the chicane
> was, so we all slid on the oil and crashed." Commented Niki
> "I've never been in such a heavy accident. I came off the road at
> 60-70mph and hit the back of another stationary crashed car, and it
> didn't feel that good! All us top 5 drivers were annoyed. But what can
> you do, this is motorsport!"
>
>
> The Youth 4 Human Rights Race Team's car was fixed over night by Colin
> Stancombe and his engineering team, Stancombe Vehicle Engineering. "When
> I was in the crash I thought my car was written off, and when I saw it
> afterwards it didn't look as bad as I expected it. I had no idea that I
> would be racing again with it the next day, but I did! So a big thanks
> to the team, especially Colin Stancombe." Lanik mentioned.
>
> Starting 4th on the grid in front of 25,000 live spectators and live TV
> coverage, Niki made an excellent start edging into 3rd place by the
> Complex, the first chicane. Niki then lost out by being pushed wide and
> being forced to take the wrong racing line through the corner, loosing
> him 3 places. Running in 6th place, Niki was charging back through the
> field about to make the move into 5th place, until there was a knock
> from the rear right of his race car - somebody had braked too late and
> tapped the Austrian Lanik off the track, hitting the wall at 10mph and
> dropping to dead last. Niki couldn't believe this, and got his car off
> the grass and drove to the pit to get his geometry on the suspension
> set-up checked. He went back out half a lap behind 2nd last place. Niki
> was then able to catch up and finish in 20th place. The driver that
> knocked Niki off was told off and penalised. The "move" was considered
> "appalling".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "It was a tough season. All top 10 drivers are who have won the Clio Cup
> before or other Championships, ranging from the Madzda MX5 championship
> to Formula 3. I really learnt a lot this year, especially racing with
> those top drivers, and most importantly realising that I can actually
> beat them. I've beaten most of them in races, but not all of them at
> once in one race. Next year there is no excuse. The team and I will be
> up there in the top 5 in the majority of races in 2008's championship."
> explained the 2006 Clio Cup Winter Champion, 20-year old Lanik.
>
> The Youth 4 Human Rights UK Race Team and Niki Lanik are considering
> defending their Winter Championship title for the second year coming.
> The team is now selling advertisement space for the 2007 Winter
> Championship, which Niki is planning to secure for the 2nd year in a
> row. If you would like to support this or find out more about the team
> or Niki Lanik, log onto www.Y4HR.com or www.NikiLanik.com, or send an
> e-mail to [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask] The team promotes the
> worthy cause of Human Rights, and is sponsored by four local companies -
> Miracle Drywash (Crawley), G&G Vitamins (Felbridge), Wealden Workwear
> (East Grinstead) and Luxury Sign Design (Lingfield). If you'd like to
> sponsor the Youth 4 Human Rights Race Team for the 2008 race season,
> e-mail Vibrant Motorsports Limited on [log in to unmask] and they will be
> happy to sort out a pack and presentation for you.
>
>
> Cheers!!
>
> Niki Lanik
> www.NikiLanik.com
>
> Youth 4 Human Rights UK Car Racing Team
> www.Y4HR.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1059 - Release Date:
> 09/10/2007 08:44
>
> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change
> your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems
> or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on
> [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]
>
> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change
> your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems
> or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on
> [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]
>
> --
>
> The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
> charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may be
> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in
> this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
> person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
> and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
> message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
> immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for
> messages of this kind.
>
> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change
> your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems
> or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on
> [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]
>
> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change
> your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any problems
> or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on
> [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]
>
>
> --
> The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
> charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
> be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
> in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
> person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
> and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
> message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
> immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
> for messages of this kind.
>
>
> ___________________________________
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML
> For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on
> [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]
>
>
>

___________________________________
COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML
For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator Rebekah Pratt on [log in to unmask] or Grant Jeffrey on [log in to unmask]