Joe: One question. Why would your uncle go to Naco? For those who
don't know, back a few years Naco had a red light district
considerably larger than the rest of the town to service the miners
just the other side of the border in Bisbee AZ and the soldiers at
Ft. Huachuca just up the road, also Mexican railtoad workers--Naco
was the northern terminus. Decidedly a straight scene. That district
is now one of the world's stranger ghost towns. When the mine in
Bisbee went bust it was pretty much over.
More luck in Agua Prieta, which isn't that far away, I'd think.
Mark
At 02:19 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>Yes, I love drama queens as a matter of fact. Is that so Awful? My
>favorite uncle -- Joe O'Brien -- was one and here's a true tale of one
>adventure he had. Horrible verse some would say! Of course, they are not
>from Nashville.
>
>
>*A Ballade of Uncle Joe*
>
>
>
>Don't go to Naco I told Uncle Joe O'Brien
>
>Stay here with Paco your tortillas is frying.
>
>But he said "I have not forsook all joys.
>
>I'm goin' to Naco for those brown eyed boys!"
>
>
>
>My Uncle Joe O'Brien was Irish and was gay.
>
>Twenty years he had been sighing down in Long Beach near LA.
>
>Loved Bonanza and loved Sugarfoot. Loved all Louis L'Amour
>
>He knew Cheyenne was a lonely man. Knew he wanted more.
>
>
>
>I was living in Huachuca. This was back in 71.
>
>I was a sad Palooka. My wife said "Goodbye, hon."
>
>Took off across Sonora. Left me busted flat.
>
>You can call me schnoorer. Paco was my cat.
>
>
>
>One night I heard the telephone. It was my Uncle Joe.
>
>Asked him to come see me. He said "Well, I don't know."
>
>Told him "There's a simple reason you might want to come around.
>
>It's the tourist season and Clint Walker is in town!
>
>
>
>"I'm on the first damn airplane!" cried Uncle Joe O'Brien
>
>Took a little cocaine so he'd feel alright flying.
>
>Drove down from Tucson in a yellow renter car.
>
>Dressed himself as Zorro. Then we went over to a bar.
>
>
>
>The eyes of Arizona were upon as as we sashayed inside
>
>My uncle dressed as Zorro his shilleagh by his side.
>
>"A Sloe Gin Fizz" cried Uncle Joe "and a whiskey for my man."
>
>And turned to me said "Tell me, son. when will we see Cheyenne?"
>
>
>
>I looked up at my Uncle Joe all six foot eight of him
>
>And said "Cheyenne's not coming, Joe." Ah, my Uncle looked so grim!
>
>"My Rosalita's left me and I need your advice.
>
>I lied about Cheyenne, I fear." His eyes turned cold as ice.
>
>
>
>"You've always been a fuckup, son, and I think it's getting worse.
>
>You could be so happy if you were polymorphously perverse.
>
>But I'll be frank with you, my man, and tell you how I feel:
>
>You couldn't pour piss from a cowboy boot with the instructions on the heel.
>
>
>
>You've always been an asshole yet I think you need another
>
>And that's what I would give you but for your dear old sainted mother."
>
>
>
>Joe had fought at Iwo. Fought the Japs like a machine.
>
>Like something out of a Devo. A fighting gay Marine.
>
>Three drunken soldiers came up. One said, "Man, I hate your hat.
>
>My Uncle Joe he laid 'em low in thirty seconds flat.
>
>
>
>The crowd fell back before us as Joe walked out to the car.
>
>Uncle Joe made just one remark: "I wish I had my B.A.R.
>
>Pulled down his Zorro hat and twitched his Zorro cape.
>
>Put in Giuseppe Verdi. Played that Eight-Track tape.
>
>
>
>Sang "Celeste Aida" as we went down the Bisbee road.
>
>Joe felt just like Zorro. I felt just like Tom Joad.
>
>
>
>Don't go to Naco I told Uncle Joe O'Brien
>
>Stay here with Paco your tortillas is frying.
>
>But he said "I have not forsook all joys.
>
>I'm goin to Naco for those brown eyed boys!"
>
>
>
>
>On 10/31/07, Patrick McManus <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Look here I am the only low grade (very low grade) drama queen around here
> > and it's me that gets to write the bad poetry
> > So you all stop trying to muscle in on my scene I can outbad you all any
> > time and as for swans we won't go into that either
> > Love to you all be warned
> > Patrick aged silver surfer drama queener extraordinaire
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of joe green
> > Sent: 31 October 2007 02:14
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Manipulation (no longer Re: New at Sharp Sand)
> >
> > Why, no. One seeks simple justice. One wants to hold on.... One's sense
> > of the ridiculous already satisfied!
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > oh yeah, before I forget. I think you've been building up to this so
> > > you could swan around like a low-grade drama queen.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > I've missed nothing, Joe. I just dislike you, your manner and your
> > > writing.
> > > >
> > > > Roger
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, joe green <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > Just in case you missed it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joseph Duemer wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Andrew. I wonder what other poets, loved in youth, flist
> > > > >
> > > > > members have had to reevaluate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Green responded: None, I never liked bad poetry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Green is quoted: "None, I never liked bad poetry."
> > > > >
> > > > > Joseph Duemer wrote: So, you just write it?
> > > > >
> > > > > So, as you can see, the only decent thing to do is to ask for an
> > > apology
> > > > > from Joe Duemer also.
> > > > > Or is he somehow justified?
> > > > >
> > > > > If so, please inform the editors at Fulcrum and tell them to cancel
> > my
> > > 15
> > > > > pages of execrable verse in the next issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or should I do it for you?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > if JG gets to run poetryetc, I'm outahere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roger
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > Joe, would you like to run Poetryetc? I'll be glad to hand you
> > the
> > > keys
> > > > > > &
> > > > > > > get the hell out of town. Your relentless anti-academic,
> > > > > > anti-intellectual
> > > > > > > bullshit has finally just gotten me down. You win. Really, it's
> > > yours.
> > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > resent the list to make you owner -- just give me the word. I
> > > mean,
> > > > > > you'd be
> > > > > > > great because you know everything already & if anyone has any
> > > questions
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > can just ask you & that will settle the issue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > jd
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/30/07, joe green <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do you consider the reader's need to not read a composition
> > > based on
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > you think the reader needs? Seems so very odd... and seems
> > like
> > > a
> > > > > > formula
> > > > > > > > for endless repetition of the same.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seems to have its origins in didactic poesy and seems quite
> > 19th
> > > > > > century.
> > > > > > > > Almost schoolmarmish. Wordsworth began "The Prelude" as an
> > > attempt to
> > > > > > > > justify his poetry -- why should anyone listen to him?.... and
> > > then
> > > > > > kept
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > revising it until he brought it to ruins. Thinking of the
> > > reader had
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > to do with that. The first prelude wild and open to
> > > contradiction and
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > fully comprehended even by the poet. The revisions all
> > > occasioned by
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > didactic impulse with a sense of not having to demonstrate
> > what
> > > was
> > > > > > > > assumed
> > > > > > > > to have been shown.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I like Eliot's suggestion that a poem is judged by all other
> > > poems --
> > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > poems are the readers in a sense. They are not troubled by
> > > > > > theoretical
> > > > > > > > grounds immersed in what is quite secondary and of a certain
> > > time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But I acknowledge that these ideas of how a poem is made are
> > > accepted
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > general public and I suspect that they are created by the
> > > workshop
> > > > > > > > mentality
> > > > > > > > and determined by the enabling conviction that one can be
> > taught
> > > to
> > > > > > write
> > > > > > > > poetry. And that many are qualified to do so!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 10/30/07, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Martin, if you're on shaky theoretical ground then so am I.
> > I
> > > often
> > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > myself anticipating what I think of as my readers' needs. I
> > > want to
> > > > > > put
> > > > > > > > > things together in such a way that a reader will have some
> > > reactions
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > have others.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > jd
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 10/30/07, Martin Dolan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On the question of whether "a writer seeks to manipulate a
> > > desired
> > > > > > > > > > audience", the question very much seems to be one of
> > > intention.
> > > > > > > > > > Manipulation in this case definitely has implications of
> > > trying to
> > > > > > > > > > obtain an advantage or an unfair outcome - unfavourable
> > > intent.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If we used a less value-laden description (influence,
> > > perhaps), it
> > > > > > > > > > strikes me that I - perhaps alone! - often set out to
> > > influence
> > > > > > others
> > > > > > > > > > through some of my poems, at least by evoking an response.
> > I
> > > get
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > uneasy feeling that I'm on suspect theoretical ground
> > here,
> > > but
> > > > > > hey, I
> > > > > > > > > > don't claim I'm successful in my intent.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Martin
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Douglas Barbour wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Oh [probably, Roger, in which case everyone is
> > > 'sincere'...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But Mark was talking, if I remember rightly, about
> > whether
> > > or
> > > > > > not a
> > > > > > > > > > > writer seeks to manipulate a desired audience. I guess
> > > that's a
> > > > > > kind
> > > > > > > > > > > of intention, whether or not it actually works?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I would tend to agree that we're always readers, but
> > then
> > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > immediately begin to wonder if that's right, too....
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My more serious point in that post had to do with that
> > > question
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > craft, which as readers we can, I guess, only intuit,
> > out
> > > of a
> > > > > > > > > > > sensibility constructed by all our (other) reading....
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Doug
> > > > > > > > > > > On 28-Oct-07, at 3:12 AM, Roger Day wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Outside v inside readings - isnt that some form of
> > false
> > > > > > dichotomy?
> > > > > > > > > > >> Neither exists as we're only readers and we impose our
> > > own
> > > > > > > > > > >> rose-coloured glasses on everything we read. I thought
> > > we'd
> > > > > > > > excluded
> > > > > > > > > > >> intentional fallacies?
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Roger
> > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Barbour
> > > > > > > > > > > 11655 - 72 Avenue NW
> > > > > > > > > > > Edmonton Ab T6G 0B9
> > > > > > > > > > > (780) 436 3320
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Latest book: Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It's the first lesson, loss.
> > > > > > > > > > > Who hasn't tried to learn it
> > > > > > > > > > > at the hands of wind or thieves?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jan Zwicky
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Joseph Duemer
> > > > > > > > > Professor of Humanities
> > > > > > > > > Clarkson University
> > > > > > > > > [sharpsand.net]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Joseph Duemer
> > > > > > > Professor of Humanities
> > > > > > > Clarkson University
> > > > > > > [sharpsand.net]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > > > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their
> > > sons."
> > > > > > Roman Proverb
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
> > > > Roman Proverb
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
> > > Roman Proverb
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.15/1101 - Release Date:
> > 31/10/2007
> > 10:06
> >
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