Remove me please from pond of intellectualised soup
Art is a universal language, it is not a competition
----- Original Message -----
From: "Xavier Pick" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Life Drawing etc; Artists and Intellectuals
Dear John
Thats the best email I have seen on this network ever - I totally agree
with you. Brilliant. Lets meet up and go drawing.
Thanks so much
Xavier
On Monday, Sep 10, 2007, at 15:50 Europe/London, JOHN PUMFREY wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> This is my first apearance in the e-mail correspondence (and possibly
> last!).
> I have been drawing for 60 years - on an almost daily basis. I also love
> to intellectualise. Indeed (although no academic or professional teacher)
> I dare to give talks entitled "Avant Garde Art since Aristotle",
> "Architecture as Frozen Music" and "The Zen of Sketching". But always
> illustrated and when I run workshops I demonstrate. Indeed, like all
> artists (or so I thought) I cannot think without drawing - so, now that we
> all have broadband, why doesn't this group circulate drawings rather
> than/as well as verbiage. Each communication should surely appear more
> like Leonardo's notebooks than a Psychology student's essay.
>
> yours, very frustrated (grumpy and old),
> John Pumfrey
> ex Kingston School Of Art (mid-fifties!)
>
>
> Alan McGowan wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> There does seem to be a sense coming through of an
> opposition between artistic practice and intellectual
> analysis. I think there are two points here.
>
> Firstly that the experience of the art education
> journey in historical terms (from workshops,
> academies, ateliers, colleges/ polytechnics and into
> universities) is not a comfortable one and that many
> people feel that much has been lost on the way. It is
> very possible that the priorities and values of
> universities are not consistent with those of artists
> (who for instance may be, possibly must be, intimately
> engaged with sensual and emotional considerations
> rather than rational ones). This “ill-fit” can reveal
> itself in many disgruntled issues ranging from
> funding, reasearch status and
> “over-intellectualisation” to room provision and life
> drawing facilities.
>
> The other point is related though I think not quite
> the same as the one Margaret makes which is to do with
> the lack of publishing /analysis of the subject (life
> drawing). I agree that we suffer from a lack of
> intellectual discourse both in terms of our academic
> standing and (more crucially from my point of view) in
> the depth of understanding of our field which it would
> give to students and practitioners. Put simply my
> experience of life drawing is that it is perceived in
> a shallow way. It’s complexities and potentials lie
> “hidden” below the surface; while this is the case
> students lack the inspiration to pursue it to a deeper
> level; it loses it’s drive and the form itself is in
> danger. Even the vocabulary associated with drawing is
> being eclipsed. I can take a group of students who
> have supposedly been studying life drawing for two
> years and confidently predict that most will not be
> familiar with terms like negative space, gesture,
> contour, centre of gravity, contra-posto or have a
> good grasp of tonal values. These terms though
> practical are not opposed to intellectual rigour but
> in my view welded to it in the process of picture
> making.
>
> The current state of publishing in the field is very
> limited, as Margaret Mayhew says “believe me - i've
> looked at everything I could find in a *lot* of
> libraries (and a few languages) and I think I can
> safely claim that there is not a lot of contemporary
> critical intellectual engagement with what life
> drawing is.”
>
> What there is is a lot of “how to..” craft based books
> and a small amount of academic “intellectual”
> analysis. I think the point here is not to criticise
> the intellectuals for intellectualising but to
> encourage more critical engagement accross the whole
> spectrum. Some intellectual discourse will by it’s
> nature be rarified, “difficult” and practically
> impossible for a non-academic to grapple with. It will
> venture through history, psychology and philosophy and
> use big words I don’t understand. That’s OK. It all
> adds to the richness of the subject (remember that
> intellectuals also admire artists’ different means of
> expression otherwise they wouldn’t study us!).
>
> Alan McGowan
> Edinburgh College of Art
> www.alanmcgowan.com
>
>
> --- Tom McGuirk <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All
>
> I can also recommend Anne Bermingham's book the full
> title is "Learning to Draw: Studies in the Cultural
> History of a Polite and Useful Art (2000) New Haven
> & London, Yale University Press. Having written a
> PhD. thesis myself on the broader more general topic
> of
> the decline in the teaching of descriptive drawing
> in Fine Art education, I have been following the
> discussion with much interest and a little amusement
> as so often happens witnessing an argument among
> friends. I completely agree with Margaret that "If
> there
> is no critical intellectual discourse about life
> drawing then it makes it a very difficult practice
> to defend in terms of research and higher education
> funding". I think it is great that she uses her
> evident skills to champion the practice. She
> describes the de facto
> situation and from a polemical point of view
> Margaret is right. Historically it is however
> precisely because Fine Art Education has abandoned
> many of its core traditions and traditional
> independence in order to come under the University
> umbrella that it finds itself
> having to "defend itself" and its traditions in such
> terms, terms which are not always of its own
> choosing and finds itself having to squeeze into the
> often ill-fitting garment of "Research". Such it
> seems is the price of Academic respectability and of
> course funding
> (who pays the piper calls the tune). This can turn
> out to be a very high price indeed when those
> outside the discipline impose their own sometimes
> inappropriate paradigms. In historical terms we find
> in this an echo of the same polemics and power
> struggle which
> accompanied the founding of the first Florentine
> academy so well described in an equally
> recommendable book Carl Goldstein's (1996) "Teaching
> Art: Academies and Schools from Vasari to Albers"
> Cambridge University Press.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Tom McGuirk
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pauline Ridley" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Life Drawing etc
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:52:19 +0100
>
>
> Not sure if anyone has yet mentioned Anne
>
>
> Berminghams wonderful book
>
>
> 'Learning to Draw' about 18th and 19th century
>
>
> drawing practices
>
>
> (amateur and professional)in England - I don't
>
>
> have it to hand but it
>
>
> should include details of drawing manuals that
>
>
> some people wanted.
>
>
> Correspondents on this strand might also be
>
>
> interested in the
>
>
> experiences of tutors and students on Access to
>
>
> Art - an art course for
>
>
> adults with learning difficulties - when
>
>
> introducing life drawing for
>
>
> the first time. There's a brief account in a
>
>
> report I co-wrote with the
>
>
> course tutor Alice Fox - available at
>
>
>
> http://www.brighton.ac.uk/cupp/projects/a2a_home.htm
>
>
> Key issues were the fact that many adults with
>
>
> severe learning
>
>
> disabilities may have had little or no sexual
>
>
> education or experience of
>
>
> sexual relationships or even sight of other people
>
>
> naked, which can then
>
>
> result in inappropriate behaviour in class, so it
>
>
> was necessary to do
>
>
> quite a lot of preliminary work first. We also
>
>
> found that looking at a
>
>
> non-disabled naked woman for more than a quick
>
>
> glance was extremely
>
>
> challenging for the group. On the whole people
>
>
> with learning
>
>
> disabilities are more used to being looked at and
>
>
> scrutinised by both
>
>
> professionals and the general public, rather than
>
>
> themselves looking at
>
>
> other people. Denied the 'power of the gaze' they
>
>
> may find eye contact
>
>
> difficult and need support and training in looking
>
>
> at other people. The
>
>
> tutors therefore slowed the session right down and
>
>
> did a few looking
>
>
> exercises, with individuals focussing on
>
>
> particular parts of the body.
>
>
> By the end of the session some very beautiful
>
>
> drawings had been made.
>
>
> Six of the students enjoyed it, although two said
>
>
> it was "rude" and
>
>
> didn't want to do it again. The life model said
>
>
> it had been "a
>
>
> refreshing and interesting experience" and
>
>
> requested to be involved
>
>
> again. Because of these experiences and insights,
>
>
> there has since been
>
>
> a greater focus on observational drawing on the
>
>
> course and development
>
>
> of different ways to help the students exercise
>
>
> their looking skills,
>
>
> for instance through cross-sections and different
>
>
> angles, through
>
>
> viewfinders, taking Polaroid photos and using
>
>
> digital video.
>
>
> ---------------
> Pauline Ridley
> Learning Area Co-ordinator (Visual Practices)
> Learnhigher CETL
> Centre for Learning and Teaching
> Room 113, Mayfield House, Falmer
> University of Brighton
> Brighton BN1 9PH
> 01273-643406
> Email [log in to unmask]
> Visit the CLT website at
>
>
> http://staffcentral.brighton.ac.uk/clt
>
>
> Visual Practices website
>
>
> http://staffcentral.brighton.ac.uk/learnhigher
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>
>
> Of Margaret Mayhew
>
>
> Sent: 06 September 2007 06:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Drawing and Anatomy
>
>
> Dear Vernon and all
>
> It doesn't surprise me at ALL that British drawing
>
>
> manuals in the 19th
>
>
> century were so anxious about the purpose of
>
>
> anatomy study in life
>
>
> drawing
> - it *was* a REALLY problematic issue for lots of
>
>
> reasons.(Roberta
>
>
> McGRath wrote a great book on this btw...)
>
> William Hunter's dissections upset quite a lot of
>
>
> people - especially
>
>
> John Ruskin - so it is a funny irony that the
>
>
> Ruskin now has the best
>
>
> dissectionist artist in the UK (and probably the
>
>
> world) - actually Dr.
>
>
> Sarah Simblett would be a very good person for you
>
>
> to contact - I'm
>
>
> assuming you've read her book too btw.
>
> If you want to investigate the whole 'is it
>
>
> necessary' issue - then
>
>
> France is quite interesting in this regard - the
>
>
> link between drawing
>
>
> and medical science became diverted in the late
>
>
> 19th century into the
>
>
> study of physical maladies and moved in the 20th
>
>
> century - quite
>
>
> specifically from the study of internal anatomy to
>
>
> the study of
>
>
> morphology - or the appearance of forms on the
>
>
> surface of the body - and
>
>
> what could be interpreted from observation.
>
> The 20th century lay huge stress on observation as
>
>
> an 'honest' way of
>
>
> seeing - and seeing through seeing rather than
>
>
> through knowing... though
>
>
> this has also had its problems.
>
> btw: I'd love the references for the two manuals
>
>
> you were referring to,
>
>
> if possible.
>
> cheers
> Margaret Mayhew
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet
>
>
> Messaging Program.
>
>
>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.12/997 - Release Date: 09/09/2007
10:17
|