I wonder why English evolved without gender, like so
many other vernacular spin-offs did. It's not a
romance language, of course, but a germanic one that
absorbed a significant number of romance vocabularies.
And btw, I haven't seen any references to or
recommendations of Shorter, where a lot of your
etymological questions may be answered. I find it very
useful, especially when I consult it together with a
modern dictionary , such as Webster's 10th (the newer
edition of which should be even better.)
Candice
--- Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Robin, you are an endless font of web wisdom!
>
> Mark
>
> At 04:34 PM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
> >Not really a response to Peter, but related --
> >for all things etymological (in case anyone hasn't
> come on this):
> >
> >
> http://www.indo-european.nl/index2.html
> >
> >"The IEED-project:
> >
> >The IEED project is supervised by Alexander
> >Lubotsky and Robert Beekes. The aim of the project
> is threefold:
> >
> >to compile etymological databases containing the
> >inherited vocabulary of various Indo-European
> >branches and to publish them on the Internet;
> >
> >to create an Indo-European etymological database on
> the Internet;
> >
> >to compile a new Indo-European etymological
> >dictionary, which will replace Julius Pokorny's
> >Indogermanisches etymologisches Wörterbuch (Bern:
> Francke, 1959). "
> >
> >Da Rodent
> >
> >*****************************
> >
> >Peter Cudmore said:
> >
> >
> >Attempted this earlier, in response to Robin's
> last, and it was rejected by
> >the server, so let's try again:
> >
> >I think Mark's instincts are good. One worry about
> the OED's pronouncements
> >about ancestral connections is that they are not
> dated, unlike the
> >etymologies. So we know when a word was first used,
> but not when the
> >dictionary's interpretation of it was formed. If
> the scepticism about links
> >with Scandinavian cognates is say 50 years old then
> more recent theory might
> >give cause for the scepticism to be revised. It
> can't all be bang up to
> >date.
> >
> >P
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> >>Behalf Of Mark Weiss
> >>Sent: 01 September 2007 17:22
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: Re: Dust Bunnits
> >>
> >>That's Robin's conversion--don't know if it's
> >>lalland or just his fertile imagination or baby
> talk.
> >>
> >>Anyway, to be slightly more coherent than I was
> >>at three in the a.m., what I was suggesting is
> >>that if one went back to protogermanic, that
> >>mythical beast, one might find a word meaning to
> >>droop or slide that gradually attracted other,
> >>pejorative meanings and in some places slid down
> >>the social scale and acquired gender, the
> >>pejoratives associated with imagined or real
> >>attributes of the poor. Tried another way,
> >>neither the Duke nor Duchess of York, regardless
> >>of her hygienic or sexual habits, would likely be
> >>referred to as a slut in any sense circa 1400,
> >>but the scullery and the stable boy and the child
> >>that stayed at home in the peasant cottage down
> the lane might be.
> >>
> >>Mark
> >>
> >>At 11:34 AM 9/1/2007, you wrote:
> >> >Hi Mark, what's with "Bunnits," as opposed to
> >> >"Bunnies, " the form I grew up with?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks--Candice
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--- Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Neither contact nor cognate forms, but a
> common
> >> > > ancestry.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > At 01:00 AM 9/1/2007, you wrote:
> >> > > >>Yup, the pejorative came first, before even
> the
> >> > > >>gender applied to, but when I look at the
> >> > > >>Germanic cognates
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>(http://books.google.com/books?id=Lx8B2tyuy1MC
> >> > >
> >> >
>
>>&pg=PA444&lpg=PA444&dq=slut+etymology&source=web&ots=c_Y7kYOIv4&sig=dModOQmf
> >>b7
> >> > 8SJs4rAOMa9GFMQgw)
> >> > >
> >> > > >>the sexual imputation appears in some
> languages
> >> > > >>but not in others. Meanings in the various
> >> > > >>languages: Icelandic, a heavy, loglike
> fellow;
> >> > > >>Swedish dialect, a slut, an idler;
> Norwegian,
> >> > > >>idler; Danish, slut; verb forms, Icel;andic
> and
> >> > > >>Norwegian to droop, allied to Danish loose,
> >> > > >>flabby. From slot-, stem of past participle
> of
> >> > > >>Norwegian sletta, to dangle, drift, idle
> about.
> >> > > >>Further allied to Dutch slodde, a slut, and
> the
> >> > > >>verb to slide.Cf. Irish slaodaire, a lazy
> person,
> >> > > from slaod, to slide.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Um. Post-Skeat, we have Onions in the
> Oxford
> >> > > >Dictionary of English Etymology saying
> "contact
> >> > > >with Continental words similarly used and
> having
> >> > > >the same cons[onantal] framework SL..T,
> cannot
> >> > > >be proved" and the OED: " Forms having some
> >> > > >resemblance in sound and sense also occur in
> the
> >> > > >Scand. languages, as Da. slatte (? from
> LG.),
> >> > > >Norw. slott, Sw. dial. slåta, but connexion
> is very
> >> > > doubtful.]"
> >> > > >
> >> > > >-- which would suggest parallel or
> convergent
> >> > > >evolution rather than cognate forms, if
> that's
> >> > > >what you're suggesting above. Assuming the
> word
> >> > > >doesn't come into use much before it's first
> >> > > >recorded, the end of the 14thC is a bit late
> for
> >> > > >an unidentified borrowing from another
> >> > > >continental language. By then, when words
> are
> >> > > >borrowed [I think], they tend initially to
> look
> >> > > >very much like their form in the language
> they
> >> > > >are borrowed from. (Which contention would
> be a
> >> > > >bit stronger if I could think of an
> example.)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >I'm drawn towards the idea that "slut" comes
> in
> >> > > >because there's a strong phonaesthetic
> framework
> >> > > >around the general semantic area of glub and
> >> > > >grot, similar words just begging to be added
> >> > > >to. I haven't checked the date origins of
> the
> >> > > following, but consider:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > slut / slattern / sloven
> >> > > >
> >> > > > slug / (slow) / sloth
> >> > > >
> >> > > > sot
> >> > > >
> >> > > > slubber / slobber
> >> > > >
> >> > > >-- given that weight of phonaesthetic
> >> > > >negativity, sluts virtually have to be
> sluttish,
> >> > > nah?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >>I'm assuming that the various idle,
> slovenly
> >> > > >>meanings are earlier, and that by a process
> of
>
=== message truncated ===
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