Right, you want to see your team win "above all else". To win takes talent and better players. So, by saying you want to win above all else means you want the best players. To get those people on your team means paying their salaries, which means meeting their salary demands. Anybody in the world is going to go where the money is (just a part of human nature called ambition), especially in a career pathway where you have maybe 10 years or so to maximize your earnings. I think you draw an exceedingly fine line between athletes and entertainers. You go to a game to be distracted from the humdrum banalities of everyday life, to see something achieved, maybe better talent performing on the pitch. Same reason people go to see a movie: A couple hours when the mind is focused elsewhere. (director/coach, scene/stadium, actor/midfielder)
Yeah this has diverged from the original point, about players competing for their national teams. I have to admit, I thought that Marx nonsense had been laid to rest a few years back. Closer to home for me, we all saw what Marxism did to Poland (among other places): almost 50 years of rape, thievery and murder perpetrated on us in the name of Marx. Capitalism and its attendant self-interest stimulates innovation and rewards ambition.
Yep, I say bourgeois is a good thing.
Dr. Paul Fiolkowski
Senior Lecturer, Sports Therapy
University of Bedfordshire
tel: 01582 734 111 x2162
fax: 01582 489 212
>>> John Fawbert 06/25/07 9:19 PM >>>
Paul
With regard to your first comment, I can only selectively quote Marx, as I couldn't put it better myself:
"The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all... idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley... ties that bound man to his 'natural superiors', and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous 'cash payment'. It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies... of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value..." (Marx & Engels, 1848:38)
You are right that 'companies' will protect their investments, but football clubs have only become more like all other kinds of companies in capitalist societies over the last 15 years or so in the sense that profit maximisation was always one goal, but one that in the past was subservient to utility maximisation in the form of playing success. For the reasons that I gave in my earlier email, I do not accept that footballers are merely entertainers in the same sense as comedians or singers are entertainers. When I go to the theatre, I want to see the best plays by Shakespeare or Chekov or Pinter performed by the best actors like Gielgud or Richardson.
When I go to see my club play Arsenal I do not want to see the best 'entertainers' in the world like Henry playing against my club. I am glad he has now gone to Barcelona and my team won't have to face him any more. The nouveau fans who like watching Man United on Sky for the 'entertainment' value do not seem to appreciate that for most 'traditional' fans it is about winning above all else and supporting your team through thick and thin. They can't seem to see the point of spending 4 hours getting to an away game at Rotherham on a cold and wet February night to see your team get stuffed.
Anyway, I think this is all getting away from the point i.e. that the new rules do not suggest that players will be forced to play for their countries if they don't want to. Am I right about that Paul?
Best wishes
Jack
Jack Fawbert
Senior Lecturer Sociology/Criminology
University of Bedfordshire
Polhill Avenue
Bedford
MK41 9EA
>>> Paul Fiolkowski <[log in to unmask]> 06/25/07 8:10 PM >>>
You say 'bourgeois' as if it is a bad thing. ;-)
And yeah, companies everywhere will protect their investments, which is what the players are, and the players only have a career of a few years to entertain thousands of people (millions). The inevitable decline (of speed/strength/agility) that comes with age will eventaully force their retirement. That is the nature of the sports industry, and I can understand why they would be reluctant to jeopardize their earning potential. They are entertainers, which is why we pay for tickets to the game, or pay to watch via Sky sports, et al.
Regards,
Dr. Paul Fiolkowski
Senior Lecturer, Sports Therapy
University of Bedfordshire
tel: 01582 734 111 x2162
fax: 01582 489 212
>>> John Fawbert 06/25/07 12:16 PM >>>
Paul
It doesn't say that any player registered with a club is obliged to reply in the affirmative when summoned to play for his national team, does it? It says that clubs must release them - that is presumably if they want to play for their country. Several high profile players have decided in the last few years that they didn't want to play for their respective countries anymore; Ryan Giggs, Alan Shearer, Paul Scholes etc. I can't see that this rule (the one you attached) would prevent such a situation from continuing.
What I think the rule reflects is the increasing bourgeoisification and commercialisation of football clubs. As they become more and more like businesses the decisions that they make are increasingly based on narrow, parochial and selfish economic interests. From their increasingly bourgeois attitude it makes no economic sense to release their players for international duty when they come back tired and, worst, injured. It is a drain on the economic assets of their 'companies'. Unless we want our football to totally reflect the capitalist societies in which it operates, I regard these regulations as sensible. Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick, have I?
Best wishes
Jack
Jack Fawbert
Senior Lecturer Sociology/Criminology
University of Bedfordshire
Polhill Avenue
Bedford
MK41 9EA
>>> Paul Fiolkowski <[log in to unmask]> 06/25/07 11:52 AM >>>
OK, initial thoughts ... ya gotta be kidding me!
Ummmmmm, any thoughts about free choice here? After all , we are talking about what is essentially a branch of the entertainment industry.
Dr. Paul Fiolkowski
Senior Lecturer, Sports Therapy
University of Bedfordshire
tel: 01582 734 111 x2162
fax: 01582 489 212
>>> Tassos Kaburakis <[log in to unmask]> 06/24/07 12:35 AM >>>
b) Any player registered with a club is obliged to reply in the
affirmative when summoned to play for his national team.
FIFA~http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/ps%5f792%5fen-annex%5fii%5f74.pdf)
Sport&EU, The Association for the Study of Sport and the European Union can be found at
http://www.sportandeu.com
Sport&EU, The Association for the Study of Sport and the European Union can be found at
http://www.sportandeu.com
Sport&EU, The Association for the Study of Sport and the European Union can be found at
http://www.sportandeu.com
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