All of this (on the grene path to lyfe":  in E.K. on "November") is very 
intirguing, and perhaps conventionally so, in the light of the Fasculus 
Morum,  V.xiii, on two ways, this being the kind of text (a preacher's 
handbook, here discoursing on Accedia) that Chaucer's Parson might have been 
using himself:

And notice that although both are evil: to sin, and after confession to
slide back, yet the latter is worse, according to the words of Peter 2: "For
it is better not to know the way of justice than after knowing it to
turn back."  And thus it is said in Ecclesiasticus 2:  "Woe to the sinner
who goes on the earth two ways."  For two ways are put before man, one that
leads to life--that is the one man takes when he clings to God by his good
deeds, of which is written:  "This is the way, walk in it"--; the other that
leads to death, of which [it] is said in Proverbs 24:  "There is a way that
seems good to a man; but its ends lead to death."  This way one takes when
one withdraws from God and clings to the devil by sin. ...  [There follows
an anecdote of a dog who who heard two horns calling him to dinner in two
different directions -- i.e., a good life leading to heaven vs. fleshly
delight leading to hedonistic satisfactions -- and got no meal at all,
because of his vacillation]   And thus, throughout the whole day, that is,
this life, they [the vacillating] follow a double path and will find no rest
in a good life, as is said in Ecclesiasticus 3: "A heart that goes two ways
shall have no rest."  So, when the night of death comes, they will fail to
reach either banquet, for when the soul leaves the body, they go down to
hell, deprived of the joy of heaven and pulled away from the delights of the
flesh.  Therefore it is the way of wisdom that, once one has come out of the
state of sin, one does not return to it but rather remains firmly in the
state of grace; hence the words of Ecclesiasticus 5:  "Be steadfast in the
way of the Lord and in the truth of your judgment.  (Wenzel tr. 485)

There is also the path as that of bewilderment or as misleading, as in 
Machaut, Remede de Fortune, ed./tr. Wimsatt and Kibler, where the lover is 
self-led into a comforting but alien and secluded and solitary garden of 
delights, in a passage resembling the one from Romance of the Rose cited by 
Kathryn Walls:

Thus I left my dear lady and went away miserable ... eager to reach some
hidden place where I could cease my weeping and regain my composure. ... I
went along thus for a while, ever lost in my thoughts, until I saw a very
beautiful garden called the Park of Hesdin (Hedon -- as in hedonism).  Then
I headed straight for it and didn't stop until I'd come there; but I
couldn't enter because it was surrounded and enclosed by high walls, and the
road was not open to one and all.  Nonetheless I followed the paths and
trails I saw before me until I reached a closed gate, which was beautiful
and nobly situated in a remote spot, far from people.  I raised the latch of
small wicket; and after I'd lifted it, I went in.  But I saw no one within,
which made me happier, because I wanted to be alone if possible.  And when
I'd succeeded in entering and found myself all alone, I bolted the lock on
the wicket.  I walked along among the plantings, which were more beautiful
than any I'd ever seen, nor will I ever see any so beautiful, so fair, so
agreeable, so pleasing, or so delightful.  I could never describe the
marvels ... I can well say that one could not seek any diversion in the air,
in water, or on land that he'd not find there imediately, always read to
answer his wish. ... I wandered up hills and down until I came upon a valley
in which I saw a fountain that was perfeclty clear and beautiful, surrounded
by trees and grass; and around it had sprung up a little hedge of wild
roses.  But I saw no beaten or well-trod path or trail, only the thick,
sharp-bladed grass.  I surmised that few people came there, so I set off in
that direction.  I passed through the little hedge and came to the clear,
limpid fountain, where I washed my face and eyes; aferwards I sat down,
because the place I'd thus reached seemed very secluded.  ¶ Then I grew
deeply despondent, blaming myself for having left my lady as I did. 
 (Remedy, 771-840)

We learn from this, then, that a path may be described as green because it 
is little
trodden, as opposed to its being green mainly because it is inviting -- or 
seductive.

In the Cursor Mundi Seth is commissioned by his dying father Adam to go to
paradise to fetch him the medicinal oil of mercy:

To Seth his son thus he said:
"Son, he said, thou must go
To paradise from which I came,
To cherubim at the gate
Who keep the way to it."
Seth said to his father then,
"How stands it father, and where?"
"I shall tell you," he said, "saying
How you shall take the right way --
Toward the east end of the vale yonder:
A green way you shall find --
In that way you shall find and see
The steps of thy mother and me.
For follow in that green grass
That ever since has been seen
Where we came -- going inadvisedly,
When we were put out of paradise --
Into this same wretched vale [=slade]
There where myself first was made:
For the grossness of our sin.
No grass may grow since therein --
That same will lead you on the way [=gate],
 From hence to paradise's gate [=3ate].
       (Morris ed. I:81, ll. 1242ff, after Trinity ms. [doubtfully 
rendered])

-- This route would seem to be a kind of putative original for a green 
pathway to life.

Pathway is word combining two possible different meanings -- a path through
a forest is generally narrow and singular, a footpath, a thing to be
scrutinzed critically, whereas the way west takes in a quarter of the
compass and is thronged by wagon wheels, the ways of God to man are many,
and all of India is found upon the Grand Trunk Road.  See Gregory, Morals on
Job:  "For a 'path' is usually narrower than a 'way;''  but by 'ways' we
understand actions, so by 'paths' we not unjustly understand the mere
thoughts of them.  "So God 'looketh narrowly into all our paths, ' in that
in all our several actions He takes account of the thoughts of the heart
too; and He 'marketh the prints of our feet,'  ... And very commonly, when
we do some things wrong, whereas our brethren see it, we are setting them a
bad example, and our foot being as it were turned out of the way, we leave
to those that follow our footesteps all awry, while by our own deeds we lead
the way for other men's conscience to stumble."  (XI.xlvii, 63)  Gregory
contrasts "the broad way of the present life" with "the narrow paths of
heavenly precept" -- for "who can be ignorant that a path is narrower than a
way?" (XXXI.xxiv, 43).

E.K.'s passage has inspired Milton not only in the sonnet's "Wisely hast 
shun'd the broad way and the green" (which seems to be a version of "the 
flowery way that leads to the broad gate and the [devil's] great fire" in 
All's Well, IV.v.53f. after Matt. 7:13), which John Leonard cites, but also 
inspired the poet in regard to stating the subject of PL (a poem which ends 
with the word "way"):

Compare:
'For though the trespasse of the first man brought death into the world, as 
the guerdon of sinne, yet being ouercome by the death of one, that dyed for 
al, it is now made (as Chaucer sayth) the grene path way to lyfe'.

...Mans First Disobedience ...
...that Forbidden Tree, whose mortal taste
Brought Death into the World,
... till one greater Man
Restore us, and regain the blissful Seat

The path in Job 8:12-13, 16 is cited by Shawcross on the sonnet, as "Whilst 
it is yet in his greeness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other 
herb.  So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope 
shall perish:  ... He is green before the sun..."   And this does indeed 
sound rather like the green pathway to hell, Leonard citing my teachers Bush 
and Woodhouse citing Smart on Ascham misciting Chaucer (= Ascham, 
Toxophilus, English Works, ed. W. A. Wright, Cambridge, 1904, 23:  "Chauser 
doth saye verie well in the Parsons tale, the greene path waye to hel."). 
  -- Jim N.




And  On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:13:28 +1200
  Kathryn Walls <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> If spiritually negative pathways are relevant, cf. the path within the
> Garden of Love RR 729ff. "Tho wente I forth on my right hond/Doun by a
> lytel path I fond/Of mentes full, and fenell grene/And faste by, without
> wene,/Sir Myrthe I fond".  But there must be many such paths, I realize.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Leonard
> Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2007 11:35 p.m.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The grene path way to lyfe
> 
> Dear Bert,
> 
> The line you quote immediately made me think of "the broad way and the 
> green" In Milton's Sonnet IX, so I checked the Milton Variorum and found
> a 
> goldmine of information, including this, from Ascham, Toxophilus,
> English 
> Works, ed. W. A. Wright, Cambridge, 1904, 23:  "Chauser doth saye verie
> well 
> in the Parsons tale, the greene path waye to hel."  Woodhouse and Bush
> add: 
> "The phrase is not in the Parson's Tale and Ascham's memory was at
> fault, as 
> Smart observes."
> 
> So, I find myself wondering whether E.K. has picked this up from Ascham,
> and 
> that what we have here is one scholar's bad memory infecting another's
> (a 
> common occurrence, even today).  E.K. changes the significance of the
> path 
> (it leads to virtue), but that might be either a further memory lapse or
> a 
> deliberate inversion of Matt. 7.13 (the broad way) and Job 8.12-13 (the 
> 'greenness' of the 'the paths of all that forget God').  One last
> thought: 
> Puritans often thought that Chaucer had written Piers Plowman.  I wonder
> if 
> Langland might produce a missing piece of the puzzle?
> 
> Best,
> 
> John Leonard
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "A.C. Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:20 PM
> Subject: The grene path way to lyfe
> 
> 
>>A time when the whole world seems ready to mount a green bandwagon - in
> 
>>Canada there is even a Federal Green Party - seems an appropriate time
> to 
>>raise a matter that has bothered me for many years, in fact, from the
> time 
>>I wrote an article on The Shepheardes Calender over fifty years ago. It
> 
>>concerns E. K.'s gloss on the November emblem: 'For though the
> trespasse of 
>>the first man brought death into the world, as the guerdon of sinne,
> yet 
>>being ouercome by the death of one, that dyed for al, it is now made
> (as 
>>Chaucer sayth) the grene path way to lyfe'.
>>
>> Evidently Chaucer did not say this though only a major poet would be 
>> capable of such a powerful statement, even more powerful, surely, than
> 
>> Marvell's 'green Thought in a green shade'. I recall making my way 
>> unsuccessfully through Thynne in the hope that the line was from a
> poem 
>> attributed to Chaucer. In 1982 I used E. K.'s phrase as the title of
> an 
>> essay on Spenser's poem in the hope that I would be shamed into
> finding 
>> its source. I didn't and I am.
>>
>> I can't recall that any comment on E. K.'s gloss in later 
>> twentieth-century editions of the poem, and, surprisingly, not even in
> the 
>> Variorum Spenser. Of recent editions, the Yale Shorter Poems, has no 
>> comment at all. In a recent edition of the poem, Douglas Brooks-Davies
> 
>> writes: 'E. K. paraphrases the opening of the Parson's Tale (itself 
>> translated from Jeremiah 6:16: "seeth . . . which is the good way, and
> 
>> walketh in that way, and ye shall find refreshing for your souls".'
> That 
>> tale begins by citing Jeremiah: 'Stondeth upon the weyes, and seeth
> and 
>> axeth of olde pathes (that is to seyn, of olde sentences) which is the
> 
>> good wey, / and walketh in that wey'. In his edition, Richard McCabe 
>> glosses: 'cf. the opening sentences of The Parson's tale quoting
> Jeremiah 
>> 6:16'. Robinson's edition of Chaucer notes that Chaucer cites the
> Vulgate; 
>> and the Geneva Bible, which E. K. would certainly know, urges that we 
>> 'aske for the olde waie, which is the good way & walke therein, and
> yet 
>> shal finde rest for your soules'. No hint here that death is 'the
> grene 
>> path way to lyfe', though in the November eclogue, death for Dido is
> the 
>> green pathway to life, for once resurrected, she is seen walking in 
>> 'fieldes ay fresh, the grasse ay greene', which is redolent of the
> 'green 
>> pasture' promised by the Psalmist.
>>
>> Is E. K.'s gloss simply unglossable, apart from idle speculation that 
>> Spenser as 'our new poet' demonstrated that he has replaced 'that good
> old 
>> poet', Chaucer, by attributing to him a line that he wrote himself? 
>> Bert
>> 

[log in to unmask]
James Nohrnberg
Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219
Univ. of Virginia
P.O Box 400121
Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121