Spurred by this discussion, I posted a couple of things over at my
weblog<http://sharpsand.net/>.
I don't want to transfer the conversation there, but Jonathan Mayhew who is
not on this list) posted a couple of comments I think folks may be
interested in. In one, he offers a useful
taxonomy<http://www.sharpsand.net/2007/06/06/two-kinds-of-poetry/>of
sincerity.
jd
On 6/6/07, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Depends on the poem and the kind of poetry. How
> about a poetry that strives for the illusion of transparency?
>
> To paraphrase Uncle Joe, any statement about "the
> truest poetry" makes me want to reach for my gun.
>
> If the author is given to such dicta I'd throw the book away.
>
> Mark
>
>
> At 12:21 PM 6/6/2007, you wrote:
> >this from a book I'm reading (Mastering the Language of Literature):
> >
> >The more we notice the artifice, the more it draws us to a recognition
> >of the feelings being presented: the truest poetry is the most
> >feigning.
> >
> >KS
> >
> >On 06/06/07, MC Ward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>Alison, I agree with you about tact, but I also think
> >>of sincerity as a _tactic_.
> >>
> >>Candice
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--- Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It occurs to me too that the question of sincerity
> >> > in art is a matter of
> >> > _tact_.
> >> >
> >> > Btw Anny, it wasn't sincerity that killed Wilde, but
> >> > a fatal meeting between
> >> > homophobia and pride: he sued the Marquess of
> >> > Queensberry for criminal libel
> >> > when the Marquess called him a sodomite, lost the
> >> > case when the defence
> >> > exposed his taste for rent boys and then was
> >> > prosecuted for "gross
> >> > indecency" ie being a sodomite. His suing for libel
> >> > can hardly be described
> >> > as "sincere"! Though definitely tragic.
> >> >
> >> > On 6/6/07, Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I rate Wilde's fairy tales highly - very highly in
> >> > fact, some are among
> >> > > his best work. It's there that he works his high
> >> > artifice and deep feeling
> >> > > truly together. The only part of oeuvre that
> >> > doesn't do anything for me is,
> >> > > oddly enough, his poems. His criticism, his plays
> >> > and his stories - the
> >> > > comic as well as the serious - take my breath
> >> > away.
> >> > >
> >> > > The stories are not sincere (people here seem to
> >> > think that "sincere"
> >> > > means "feeling"; no it doesn't, not in the sense I
> >> > mean it, not in the sense
> >> > > Wilde meant it. It means the newsreader lowering
> >> > her voice for the next sad
> >> > > bit of news before skipping on to th cute cat
> >> > rescue story, or the
> >> > > politician leaning over the desk). They create an
> >> > alternative imagined
> >> > > reality in which Wilde can permit the play of real
> >> > feeling.
> >> > >
> >> > > xA
> >> > >
> >> > > On 6/6/07, MC Ward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Wasn't it Keats who said we distrust anything
> >> > that has
> >> > > > designs on us?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If poetry doesn't have such designs on its
> >> > readers,
> >> > > > then what is it for? I love the sensation of
> >> > being in
> >> > > > the hands of a master the minute I begin reading
> >> > a
> >> > > > really fine poem. Bring on the designs and blow
> >> > me
> >> > > > away!
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --- Anny Ballardini <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > As a matter of fact, "sincerity was fatal" to
> >> > Wilde,
> >> > > > > as it was or has been
> >> > > > > to many. We do not want to confuse a metaphor
> >> > for
> >> > > > > the essence, the
> >> > > > > awareness, the profound consciousness of the
> >> > Author,
> >> > > > > do we? Logically
> >> > > > > anybody can counterfeit the work of others by
> >> > using
> >> > > > > an "I" in this case
> >> > > > > willingly and deceitfully made personal. It is
> >> > what
> >> > > > > happens (has been
> >> > > > > happening) all over the place. And that is why
> >> > very
> >> > > > > few are the poets or
> >> > > > > writers that make it into the "golden shrine".
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > "Sinceritas"
> >> > > > > what a clean word!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Anny Ballardini
> >> > > > > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >> > > > >
> >> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> >> > > > > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> >> > > > > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one
> >> > to give
> >> > > > > birth to a dancing
> >> > > > > star!
> >> > > > > Friedrich Nietzsche
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On 6/6/07, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > This from the Online Etymological
> >> > Dictionary:
> >> > > > > > "sincerity. 1546, from M.Fr. sincérité
> >> > (1519),
> >> > > > > > from L. sinceritatem (nom. sinceritas), from
> >> > > > > > sincerus "sound, pure, whole," perhaps
> >> > originally
> >> > > > > > "of one growth" ( i.e. "not hybrid,
> >> > unmixed"),
> >> > > > > > from sem-, sin- "one" + root of crescere "to
> >> > > > > > grow" (see
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > <
> >> >
> >>http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=crescent>crescent).
> >> > > > > > Ground sense is of "that which is not
> >> > falsified."
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > I spoke of "the Wordsworth in the poems." I
> >> > am
> >> > > > > > interested in (value) poets because of the
> >> > poems
> >> > > > > > they wrote, on the assumption that the poems
> >> > > > > > didn't spring up like mushrooms. Or as you
> >> > put it,
> >> > > > > "someone made it."
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > It might be good to remember that Wilde, in
> >> > > > > > addition to a lot of work that remains
> >> > > > > > convincing, wrote in a fit of deep
> >> > "sincerity"
> >> > > > > > the bathetic "Ballad of Reading Gaol" and
> >> > the (to
> >> > > > > > my mind) barely tolerable fairy tales.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Mark
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
>
> >>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >> > > >
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> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
> >> > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> >> > > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
> >> > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> >> > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> >>____________________________________________________________________________________
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--
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
|
