That's it in a nutshell - thanks Tyler!

What I'm getting from discussion so far is that yes, this is a
reasonable idea, and that there is more than one way to implement it
technically (which is to my mind a good thing).

Any thoughts from anyone else?

Best wishes
 
Ed
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Technical advisory panel to the Forum on Information Standards in
Heritage. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tyler Bell
Sent: 01 June 2007 13:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH-TECHNICAL] MIDAS Heritage peer review - data and
documents

Hi Ed,

If I can paraphrase what you are proposing:  you are suggesting that
certain components (sections, words, or otherwise) of free text can be
marked up or otherwise annotated to add some degree of structure.  At
the end of this path is one or more additional schema for 'tagging'
freetext.

I think this is a good idea, but (regarding the earlier part of this
thread) my general impression is that we should not let the technical
implementation influence the standard overly.

Tyler





On 6/1/07, Tobi Tonner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> > The point still remains that if the management plan info isn't
> > structured, you can't include it within a report in a structured
way,
> > even if you can extract the whole thing as the content of a single
XML
>
> > element.
>
> OK, agree. Does that imply that management plan data should be
> structured according to a standard? How would this standard be
> linked/included in MIDAS Heritage? If the management info is
structured
> and defined to a standard, then obviously these definitions could be
> used to create either XML schemas or relational database fields which
in
> turn could be used flexibly to generate any kind of HTML or XML
> output... ?!?
>
> T.
>
>
>
> Tobi Tonner
> HBSMR Consultant
> exeGesIS Spatial Data Management Ltd
>
> [log in to unmask]
> Direct Dial: 01874 - 713070
> Main line: 01874 - 711145
> Fax: 01874 - 711156
>
>
> exeGesIS SDM Ltd
> Great House Barn
> New Street, Talgarth
> Powys LD3 0AH.
> www.esdm.co.uk
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Technical advisory panel to the Forum on Information Standards
in
> Heritage. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard
> Light
> Sent: 01 June 2007 12:46
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [FISH-TECHNICAL] MIDAS Heritage peer review - data and
> documents
>
> In message
>
<[log in to unmask]>,
> Tobi Tonner <[log in to unmask]> writes
> >Hi Richard,
> >
> >That's interesting - it basically boils down to the question "Do you
> >want to use an XML database to store your information?". If the
answer
> >is yes, then obviously you would store the management plan as XML. If
> >the answer is no, and I would argue the case that most SMR/HER users
> >would not want to store their 50,000-100,000+ records within an XML
> >database, then you are much better off maintaining your management
plan
> >in database fields (with or without formatting) and you can then
> >generate reports in any kind of format (including XML) from your
> >relational data.
>
> The point still remains that if the management plan info isn't
> structured, you can't include it within a report in a structured way,
> even if you can extract the whole thing as the content of a single XML
> element.
>
> >A point on the side: HBSMR now generates XML for all of the records
in
> >the database and stores this XML in a Cache table. NB that the actual
> >live data is not in XML format but only a copy of it. This cache is
> >automatically updated when a record changes and can be used to render
> >the record contents as HTML into a web browser (in our case this is
> >called the "HBSMR Browser") or it can be used to publish information
> >through a web service in XML format (in our case we would be using
the
> >HBSMR Gateway and MIDAS XML).
> >Using this two-way approach, we can offer high performance relational
> >database storage and retrieval whilst still being able to exchange
> >information with other programmes and systems using HTML and XML.
>
> That's a nice approach.  What we do with ModesXML is to lob the XML
> records into a BLOB field (sound familiar?), then add user-controlled
> XPath indexing into the XML content.  The indexes are maintained live
by
>
> the database, so we also get high performance (non-)relational storage
> and retrieval while still ....
>
> Richard
>
> >
> >Tobi Tonner
> >HBSMR Consultant
> >exeGesIS Spatial Data Management Ltd
> >
> >[log in to unmask]
> >Direct Dial: 01874 - 713070
> >Main line: 01874 - 711145
> >Fax: 01874 - 711156
> >
> >
> >exeGesIS SDM Ltd
> >Great House Barn
> >New Street, Talgarth
> >Powys LD3 0AH.
> >www.esdm.co.uk
> >
> >
> >This E-mail and any files transmitted with it are private and
intended
> >solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> >addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient, the E-mail and any
> >files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying,
> >distribution or other use of the information contained in them is
> >strictly prohibited.
> >
> >Nothing in this E-mail message amounts to a contractual or other
legal
> >commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a
signed
> >communication.
> >
> >exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free of
> >viruses.  However, the recipient of this message will need to scan
this
> >message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can
take
> >no responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred by
> >this e-mail.
> >
> >Registered in England and Wales : Great House Barn, New Street,
> >Talgarth, Brecon, Powys, LD3 0AH                Company Number :
> 3743089
> >VAT number : 736473122
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Technical advisory panel to the Forum on Information Standards
in
> >Heritage. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard
> >Light
> >Sent: 01 June 2007 11:31
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [FISH-TECHNICAL] MIDAS Heritage peer review - data and
> >documents
> >
> >In message
>
><[log in to unmask]>
> ,
> >Tobi Tonner <[log in to unmask]> writes
> >
> >>With your background in XML, how would you propose to store
management
> >>information within a MIDAS HERITAGE complient database?
> >
> >Fair question!  If you mean "XML-encoded management information", as
> per
> >Ed's initial post, then there is no reason why you can't drop that
into
> >a BLOB field: it would be better than using RTF.  Obviously you then
> >complicate the task of reconstituting your full XML from your
database
> >content, but it should be possible.
> >
> >If your database is relational, you have no choice but to either
> analyse
> >out a full table structure that takes account of all the groupings
> >allowed by your DTD/Schema, or give up and drop the XML into a BLOB
> >field.
> >
> >Interestingly, our ModesXML application for object cataloguing is
> moving
> >in the direction suggested by Ed: we now provide elements which allow
> >object descriptions to be semi-structured text with headings, etc.
> >However, this is within a native XML database, so it's easier to do.
> >
> >Richard
> >--
> >Richard Light
> >SGML/XML and Museum Information Consultancy [log in to unmask]
>
> --
> Richard Light
> SGML/XML and Museum Information Consultancy
> [log in to unmask]
>

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