Thank you for your reference Venantius. I enjoyed seeing the collaborative
work. I would love to set up a similar collaboration here. Maybe each
developing the work of the other, child and adult on equal terms so to
speak. A four year old would have little trouble with that notion I would
guess, but I may try it with my 15 year old grandaughter who is enthusiastic
about such a project.
Ronette
----- Original Message -----
From: "Venantius Pinto" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 31 May 2007 to 1 Jun 2007 (#2007-64)
> Hello Ronette,
> Within the spirit of your note, allow me to point you to the first part of
> a collaboration I recently did
> with a Athena Feodora, a four year old.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/venantius/522019264/
> Click on ALL SIZES, and then Original to see the piece.
>
> Some of my work may be seen at:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/venantius/sets
>
> Venantius J Pinto
>
> ______________________________________
> On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 09:49:51 +1200, Ronette Pickering wrote
>> Hi David
>>
>> I too would be interested to know what others regard as drawing's
>> foundation principles. If only to
> find out if they happen to coincide with my own opinion.
>>
>> However I am intrigued that a distinction is made regarding the age of
>> students who happen to be
> learning to draw (see below) and students are often, in this thread,
> referred to as 'young adults'. Is
> this because it is the age range of students taking arts courses?
>>
>> It is my belief that the age of the students is immaterial - young
>> children can be just as convinced
> that they can't draw as the elderly. The same kind of approach to learning
> seems to work no matter
> what the age - early success in terms of meeting aspirations, constant
> encouragement and positive
> yet constructive feedback. And of course the more you practise the better
> you get.
>>
>> There seems to be an age though, when children change from being happy
>> with their drawings to
> being dissatisfied (often around 8 years +), and this can be because of
> comments from others, but
> often as not it is their own perception of what they are trying and, in
> their opinion, failing to achieve
> This is the teachable moment ... but often a missed moment because not
> many adults - parents or
> teachers - are able to draw and they too are convinced that you need some
> kind of innate talent or
> else they don't think it is important in the scheme of things anyway. But
> 'talent' is a slippery word.
>>
>> Look forward to hearing what you think.
>>
>> Ronette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Paul Bettinson
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 31 May 2007 to 1 Jun 2007
>> (#2007-64)
>>
>> hi david
>>
>> read your last post repy to sarah - what do you regard as drawings
>> foundational principles? and/
> or may i relate this question back to your post: what foundational drawing
> prnciples should be
> taught to young adults? (age range approx 17 - 27)
>>
>> your answer will definately help me cross-reference texts and find out
>> more to read for myself
> and of course help me in a drawing projetc i will be holding for 3d
> graphic film students next
> semester!
>>
>> be great to get info from you!
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> paul
>>
>> On 5/6/07, David <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Hi Sarah, I have been teaching young adults (and older adults) to
>> draw
>> realistically for about 11 years and I would like to
>> share some of the common 'problems young adults face when trying to
>> learn how to draw realistically (without previous experience)' that I
>> have found in that time.
>> Problems
>> 1. Having the idea , gained from art teachers, media, family and
>> friends, that artists and 'good drawers' are born with an innate
>> gift,
>> that only some have it, and that you cant be taught to draw unless
>> born
>> with this happy gift.
>> As Ronette Pickering writes below, once the young student hears that
>> this is not considered true by artists themselves and that you can be
>> taught this skill they usually feel set free , and motivated.
>> 2. Breaking away from the writing brain to the drawing brain. This is
>> a
>> big issue in our cultures now as writing and mathematical writing are
>> drilled in from infancy, and thus the habit of concentrating on small
>> details is extremely hard to break.
>> I do it by insisting on them holding the pencil like a brush, and if
>> they are open to it, drawing 'backhand' instead of with the
>> traditional
>> writing grip. This change in feel helps a lot of students break from
>> the
>> writing mentality, and it encourages drawing with the whole arm
>> rather
>> than just the wrist and fingers.
>> 3. Finding a well educated drawing teacher patient and caring enough
>> to
>> gently reiterate foundational principles over and over and over.
>> There
>> are many drawing teachers available, but not a lot that could really
>> be
>> considered to understand and be able to apply the full tradition of
>> past
>> and contemporary drawing principles. This is a general problem now as
>> traditional realistic drawing training has been greatly neglected in
>> tertiary art schools ( and in primary and secondary) for quite a
>> number
>> of years.
>> So a student keen to learn the great tradition has to take what they
>> can
>> get. If a student is really keen and reads lots of good drawing
>> education texts then they will eventually be able to assess the level
>> of
>> tuition they are getting.
>> One of the hallmarks of a good drawing teacher ( I think) is that
>> they
>> will always demonstrate and teach by drawing.
>> A good drawing says a thousand words!
>>
>> I would appreciate it Sarah (and I'm sure the other correspondents
>> would
>> feel the same) if you would acknowledge any use of what we have
>> written
>> here in your thesis.
>> Regards, David Lovegrove
>> ( I have a Diploma of Fine Art from the Julian Ashton Art School,
>> Sydney
>> , and a M.A in Visual Art from Queensland College of Art, Griffith
>> University Brisbane).
>>
>> DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system wrote:
>> > There is 1 message totalling 170 lines in this issue.
>> >
>> > Topics of the day:
>> >
>> > 1. Teaching Drawing
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 21:07:56 +0100
>> > From: waqas <[log in to unmask] >
>> > Subject: Re: Teaching Drawing
>> >
>> > Sahra,
>> > Being an art/drawing educator must be really difficult at times and
>> I
>> > don't envy the art tutor's job. I am not a drawing academic but I
>> have
>> > found that attempting to link any theory and practice is often
>> > nonsensical. When it does link, it tends to occur without any
>> conscious
>> > recognition that it has or afterward if a tutor provides their
>> > constructive feedback. The drawing may not turn out to be a
>> masterpiece
>> > but it's important that an individual can move on to the next
>> > composition with relative ease. I can assure you, that does not
>> always
>> > happen. Sometimes, I have started to draw a subject and then found
>> > myself annoyed that it isn't turning out as I'd wished and either
>> it's
>> > scrapped or just put down to experience.
>> >
>> > People learn at any stage of life, no matter what the subject
>> matter
>> > is. Julia Morrisoe's points about what to do with the skill and
>> how
>> > does it further goals are really valid questions.
>> >
>> > You are welcome to view some of my past conceptual and exploratory
>> > drawings at http://thetrilbydrawingroom.typepad.co.uk which is
>> being
>> > updated as and when I get the time.
>> >
>> > Good luck in your drawing research.
>> > Waqas.
>> >
>> > Sahra Kunz wrote:
>> >
>> >> hello:
>> >> Thank you for your replies:
>> >>
>> >> My academic background training was as a painter, and I found (and
>> still find) that the initial
> stages of teaching drawing should focus more on the rational aspects, such
> as learning to observe
> reality, and place yourself objectively in front of it.This was never the
> case when I was at university,
> the focus lay on expression and artistic qualities.
>> >> My theoretical work is heavily based on John Willats, and also
>> computer vision experts such
> as David Marr, Irving Biederman, and others.
>> >> I hope to find a common rationale (art and science) in order to
>> improve my teaching skills,
> and perhaps even explain certain common representational errors this way.
>> >> I have found that explaining the underlying visual processes to
>> students is often helpful
> when trying to explain things like perspective (they often refuse to
> believe it, even when observing it
> directly).
>> >> Has anyone else tried this approach?
>> >> Thank you
>> >> Sahra
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list on behalf of
>> Ronette Pickering
>> >> Sent: Thu 5/31/2007 12:32 AM
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Re: Teaching Drawing to Adults
>> >>
>> >> Hello Sahra
>> >>
>> >> I have been teaching figure drawing to community groups since 1993
>> and
>> >> continue to do so now that I am retired from teaching in full time
>> art
>> >> programmes. My students choose to come to the class because they
>> are
>> >> interested and they come with a range of experience from complete
>> beginners
>> >> to those who have been attending my classes for years and who may
>> or may not
>> >> be involved in their own art practice. The students range in age
>> from 17 to
>> >> 80 years of age and include both men and women. I use both male
>> and female
>> >> models, some of whom are also artists.
>> >>
>> >> These students come to the class for a variety of reasons. They
>> want a
>> >> challenge, they want to learn to draw, they want extra drawing
>> practice,
>> >> they want to improve their ability to see, they want to use
>> drawing
>> >> particularly in their practice, they want to find new ways to
>> interpret the
>> >> figure, they want to get out of the house, they want to think of
>> things
>> >> other than the needs of their family, they want to have time for
>> themselves
>> >> where they can be completely absorbed, they may be teachers who
>> want to be
>> >> told what to do and not think at all for a change ...
>> >>
>> >> So I need to be able to cater for the needs of each of them within
>> a three
>> >> hours class. I do this by choosing drawing activities that are
>> challenging
>> >> for all students whether they have drawn before or not. I have
>> used books by
>> >> Robert Kaupelis - Experimental Drawing, where there are numerous
>> useful
>> >> drawing exercises (eg drawing blindfolded); Kimon Nicolaides - The
>> Natural
>> >> Way to Draw (eg flash drawings); Daniel Mendelowitz - A Guide to
>> Drawing;
>> >> Nathan Goldstein - The Art of Responsive Drawing, and Figure
>> Drawing-
>> >> Structural Anatomy and Expressive Design of the Human Form ...
>> and many
>> >> more, as well as devising my own exercises.
>> >>
>> >> I also constantly revisit basic drawing approaches, teach the
>> basics but
>> >> suggest to experienced students more challenging ways to achieve
>> them.
>> >>
>> >> With new students, I find once I have convinced them that they
>> everyone can
>> >> draw, themselves included, they are off. So it is important , at
>> the start,
>> >> to provide drawing exercises where success is almost guaranteed in
>> terms of
>> >> producing a pretty good rendition of what is before them, which is
>> what most
>> >> beginners want to do.
>> >>
>> >> It is important to be positive but also to give constructive
>> criticism.
>> >> What do you think works really well in your drawing? How would you
>> do this
>> >> if you could have another go at it? What would you change? A
>> feedback
>> >> session where everyone talks about their work is where students
>> learn a
>> >> great deal and although it is optional everyone seems to want to
>> show their
>> >> work and get feedback on it from the rest of the class.
>> >>
>> >> Once people can fulfill their own aspirations they are happy to be
>> >> expressive and experimental and widen their view of what drawing
>> can be. It
>> >> helps to show drawings of all sorts that stretch the
>> preconceptions as well
>> >> as good master drawings of the more conventional kind.
>> >>
>> >> Hope this may be useful.
>> >>
>> >> Ronette Pickering
>> >> Nelson NZ
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Jan White" < [log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:01 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: Teaching Drawing to Adults
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Morning Sahra,
>> >> I teach freehand drawing to senior year architecture students,
>> some of
>> >> whom, strangely, have few drawing skills. I have also taught
>> extensive
>> >> adult drawing classes. I agree with David that the most important
>> >> barrier to learning to draw is fear. I always point out that if
>> one has
>> >> eye-hand co-ordination, one CAN learn to draw. Betty Edwards has
>> some
>> >> good exercises which I have also used for beginner adults: drawing
>> a
>> >> complicated line drawing upside down and so on. They are always
>> amazed
>> >> to find that, yes, they can do it, and very well at that. Good
>> luck with
>> >> your project - let me know how it goes and let me know also if I
>> can
>> >> have a copy of your thesis when you get to bind it. My other
>> passion is
>> >> 'what drawers and artists/ writers 'saying'? Many of us will be
>> very
>> >> interested in the findings of your research project so keep us
>> posted,
>> >> my email is: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Best wishes,
>> >> Jan White
>> >> www.geocities.com/jmwh8981/index
>> >> [log in to unmask]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list
>> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sahra Kunz
>> >> Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2007 2:01 a.m.
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Teaching Drawing to Adults
>> >>
>> >> Hello:
>> >>
>> >> I am a doctorate student/university drawing teacher in Oporto
>> >> (Portugal),
>> >> and I am Writing my Doctoral Dissertation on the problems young
>> adults
>> >> face
>> >> when trying to learn how to draw realistically (without previous
>> >> experience). I have an extensive bibliography on the same subject,
>> >> related
>> >> to children and their development in this subject (Matthews,
>> Willats,
>> >> etc.).
>> >> So far, it has been very difficult to locate similar research, but
>> >> related
>> >> specifically to older subjects.
>> >>
>> >> I would appreciate any help immensely.
>> >> Thank You
>> >> Sahra Kunz
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> CAUTION: The information contained in this email is confidential
>> and may be
>> >> legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the
>> intended
>> >> recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
>> distribution,
>> >> or reproduction of this message is prohibited. Thank you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > End of DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 31 May 2007 to 1 Jun 2007
>> (#2007-64)
>> >
>> *********************************************************************
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
> Venantius J Pinto
> [log in to unmask]
>
|