Mark
I understand your concerns about the quality of bids and the capability to deliver - but surely that is something that can be ascertained as part of the evaluation process. What is at issue here is that FE is being discriminated against by being excluded even when it delivers HE. I take it that JISC would not prevent a small HE institution from bidding just on its size so why are they preventing small HE provision from applying just because it is contained within an FE institution.
Richard
________________________________
From: Virtual Learning Environments on behalf of Mark Stiles
Sent: Tue 12/06/2007 15:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
Richard
As has already been pointed out, it is hardly JISC's fault that LSC don't see fit to provide the funding needed to allow FE to participate more widely in its activities. (Plus as has already been said, it's not just HEFCE, but HEFCW, SHEFC, and DEL). Plus, when the funding IS higher education funding, at what level do you say an FEI is eligible - ten students? I appreciate the limits posed are arbitrary, but there IS a level of minimum HE provision needed to make an FEI-based HE bid credible AND deliverable surely?
Mark
On 12/6/07 2:51 pm, "Richard Everett" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
HEFCE and JISC are indivisible - if there is an issue that is affecting JISC (as a result of HEFCE funding rules) then IMHO JISC should be telling HEFCE that it is harming their standing in the wider community (with a view to getting the policy changed).
It seems to me to be a totally legitimate view of staff in FE to think (irrespective of whether it is the JISCs fault or HEFCEs) that there is unfair treatment of FE colleges delivering HE.
It seems to me that the whole point of having an attitudinal survey is to find out what attitudes people have of the JISC - I am willing to bet that a large number of FE colleges would hold similar views on this matter - it will be interesting to see if the survey bears that out.
Regards
Richard
________________________________
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Stiles
Sent: 12 June 2007 14:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
Richard
What Jacqui has said is important. JISC are actually very keen to involve FE colleges, but where calls are specifically funded by, for example, HEFCE those funders do set conditions. JISC's desire to involve FE is evidenced by all the pre-call briefings and workshops that were held ahead of the HE in FE call. (I would add that FE colleagues would do well to engage with such events, and things like bidding workshops held by ALT and the RSCs, as they DO suffer from their inexperience in writing bids)
One of the things that FE can do to improve their chances is to involve themselves as much as possible in the community and forge links with others. I have had two or three of Staffordshire's FEI partners as active partners in my last four JISC projects.
(As a last point - my team are not "postgraduates", they are professional learning technologists!)
Mark
On 12/6/07 12:00 pm, "Jacquie Kelly" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi Richard,
The primary reason for some small HE providers not being allowed to bid
in their own right is that the money for these projects comes from HEFCE
and they decide on the funding criteria.
You may recall that fairly recently the LSC decided to cut their funding
to JISC and so maybe this is who you need to lobby.
Regards,
Jacquie
Jacquie Kelly
Senior Adviser
JISC infoNet
Room 303
Hadrian House
Higham Place
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 8AF
Tel +44 (0) 191 243 8463
Mobile: +44 (0) 7813 895246
Fax +44 (0) 191 227 4768
Email [log in to unmask]
http://www.jiscinfonet.ac.uk <http://www.jiscinfonet.ac.uk/>
______________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Richard Everett
Sent: 12 June 2007 11:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
Hi Phil
This still does not address the inequity of some FE colleges that
deliver HE being specifically excluded from bidding. It is primarily
this that causes the JISC to be accused of being an exclusive club.
I would have thought that in the interests of a better experience for
students in Higher Education, the JISC would wish to encourage FE
participation so that it can learn from the valuable experience FE has
to offer (or is it a case of HE knows best - FE can pick up the crumbs)?
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Philip Butler
Sent: 12 June 2007 11:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] FW: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
Hi Gary, Richard,
I realise that this often feels like a club, but Universities have
Teaching and Learning Centres geared up for this type of work; whole
teams of post-graduates led by emminent professors (like Mark Stiles,
etc.) work on these projects. The issue isn't about people losing out
on 'dosh' being handed out, it's whether the money will enable projects
to be delivered effectively. Commonly smaller LP's don't' have the
infrastructure or resources to do this, and if they were to 'buy it in',
it's questionable whether this is cost effective, and what happens to it
when the money dries up and the project finishes?
However, when universities bid for projects, they often actively look
for collaborative partnerships with FEI's and Sixth Form Colleges.
Perhaps it would be worth setting up a Wikki or a searchable Social
Networking site where interested learning providers can register,
listing resources they can offer, etc.?
Moodle Regional User Group
Only a couple of places left for what must be the Moodle event of the
year!
http://www.rsc-london.ac.uk/1042/
(Additional charge for non-supported institutions - but we're not an
exclusive club!)
Very best wishes
Philip
Philip Butler, Senior e-Learning Adviser JISC RSC for London ULCC, 20
Guilford Street London WC1N 1DZ
Tel: 020 7692 1643 (Office)
0787 962 0421 (Mobile)
www.rsc-london.ac.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Gary Musham
Sent: 12 June 2007 09:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
Hi Richard
I agree, I used to work in a sixth form College that didn't even get a
look in regarding JISC bids. The bid door was well and truly locked!
Regards
Gary Musham
________________________________
From: Virtual Learning Environments on behalf of Richard Everett
Sent: Tue 12/06/2007 09:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] FW: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
I liken it to the JISC being a bit of an exclusive club. Supposedly all
institutions delivering Higher Education are able to bid for funding
opportunities but in reality it is only a 'club' of institutions that
can. Many Further Education Colleges, that do in fact deliver HE, are
specifically excluded from bidding - that IMHO is the inequity.
Hope that clarifies
R
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of STILES Mark J
Sent: 11 June 2007 19:38
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] FW: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
What form do see this parity taking Richard - and indeed, in what way is
parity lacking?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Richard Everett
Sent: 11 June 2007 18:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VLES] FW: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
Personally I think a little bit of parity between Higher Education and
FE colleges who deliver HE wouldn't go amiss for bidding! I will put
that in the survey but I don't necessarily think that others need to ;-)
R
-----Original Message-----
From: A JISC announce list. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Philip POTHEN
Sent: 11 June 2007 16:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
JISC Attitudinal Survey 2007
How well do you know JISC? What could it do better? Do you find Intute
useful? How about Copac? What e-resources should JISC Collections
acquire?
JISC is keen to know the answers to these questions and others like them
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