virtualisation is a tool - not a problem - i outlined 3 problems not addressed by
GENI/FIND (much) two at least of which might be addressed by virtualisation,
(business models and control of unwanted traffic), and the third (infrastructure
free wireless wide area networks ) might use virtualisation as part of resource
management
(e.g. spectrum - doncha just love the idea of virtual spectrum - kind of like
abstracting thin air) 

by the way, andrew didn't explicitly outline it, but the combination of xen and
xorp is quite widespread in the network virtualisation emergent community  (there
are other choices for network/OS virtualised stack, but even those, e.g. click,
include some of xen or vservers or some way to get a higher level management API)

oh, and while I am whingeing:
a big problem i have with coseners recently is the lack of (well,
decreasing) engagement with the ubicomp and and mobile VCE community

In missive <[log in to unmask]>, Chris Cooper typed:

 >>Jon,
 >>
 >>Sounds more like the initial items of a programme to complement FIND?
 >>
 >>I'd also emphasise virtualization (as Andrew's Networkshop talk and one 
 >>or two of the funded FIND projects) and location independent access - an 
 >>aspect of Jon's item 3.  (I like the thought of combining virtualization 
 >>and Bob Kahn's 'Transient Network Architecture'.)
 >>Even more, I'd add items at the application enabling level - how to 
 >>enable Jon's 'good guy hackers' (while fixing the bad guys, of course), 
 >>since the IP internet is driven by the layers above.
 >>
 >>So, why not fly Dave Clark over for Coseners and have a session on this?
 >>And to help emphasise 'higher layers' (Web2.1 or is that DIY grid 
 >>middleware, etc?), Andrew Herbert could be invited to make an appearance 
 >>to celebrate inaugural funding from Microsoft? No?
 >>
 >>(And Level 0 should enable access to or parallel facilities to GENI?)
 >>
 >>Best wishes,
 >>Chris
 >>
 >>Jon Crowcroft wrote:
 >>> of course, i might have screwed up any relations we might have with FIND/GENI with my comments in today's
 >>> guadian podcast:
 >>> http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/podcasts/2007/04/science_weekly_for_april_30.html
 >>> 
 >>> :-)
 >>> 
 >>> In missive <002201c78b0e$71b0be80$0102a8c0@MARSHALL>, Alan typed:
 >>> 
 >>>  >>I agree with Ian. EPSRC are expecting directions from this community, and
 >>>  >>engaging with NSF on their FIND programme looks like it will help provide
 >>>  >>some of this direction. Also, I think this type of engagement was one of the
 >>>  >>recommendations from the recent International review of ICT that was
 >>>  >>commissioned by EPRSRC.
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>"Recommendations:
 >>>  >>EPSRC should actively reach out to the US NSF, NIH and DARPA to establish
 >>>  >>joint funding of projects. This should include exchanges between agency
 >>>  >>programme and project managers as well as joint sponsored workshops for
 >>>  >>researchers. There are also some large US initiatives that encourage
 >>>  >>collaborations"
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Seems to me that this would fit the bill.
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>I would be happy to contribute to a response.
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Best regards,
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Alan Marshall
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>  
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>-----Original Message-----
 >>>  >>From: Next Generation Networking [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
 >>>  >>Ian Wakeman
 >>>  >>Sent: 30 April 2007 10:41
 >>>  >>To: [log in to unmask]
 >>>  >>Subject: Re: and now FIND...
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Jon, all,
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>I agree with us making a joint response and will be happy coordinating
 >>>  >>it -- I have in mind that we'll concurrently approach the EPSRC to
 >>>  >>update them on the 'level 0' network progress and to broach the subject
 >>>  >>of a special initiative on networking research.
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Can I have a 'show of hands' from those of you interested in responding?
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Regards,
 >>>  >>David
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>-----Original Message-----
 >>>  >>From: Next Generation Networking [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
 >>>  >>Of Jon Crowcroft
 >>>  >>Sent: 30 April 2007 06:59
 >>>  >>To: [log in to unmask]
 >>>  >>Subject: and now FIND...
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>does the UK NGN community want to have a coordinated response?
 >>>  >>i think so....
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>anyone want to volunteer to coordinate it?
 >>>  >>(not me:)
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>see below
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>------- Forwarded Message
 >>>  >>Subject: Collaboration on Future Internet Architectures
 >>>  >>Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:53:14 -0400
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>
 >>>  >>Call for Research Collaboration on Future Internet Architectures in
 >>>  >>Partnership with the US NSF FIND Program
 >>
 >>[....]
 >>
 >>> 
 >>>  cheers
 >>> 
 >>>    jon
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >>
 >>-- 
 >>------------------------------------------------------
 >>Prof Christopher (Chris) S Cooper
 >>Visiting Professor at Oxford Brookes University
 >>Consultant to UKERNA
 >>Tel: +44 (0)1854 613727 (answerphone)
 >>Email:  [log in to unmask] / [log in to unmask]
 >>Mobile: +44 (0)7880 730677
 >>http://cms.brookes.ac.uk/staff/ChrisCooper/
 >>Personal email: [log in to unmask]
 >>
 >>Address for all correspondence:
 >>Rivendell
 >>Garve Road
 >>Ullapool
 >>Wester Ross  IV26 2SX
 >>

 cheers

   jon