Thanks Mike, that are very good citations and I've got most of them.
What is interesting is that although most of the work on scale-free network growth has been node - link based, most generative approaches to growing urban systems have been CA based. There must be a way to represent similar processes in vector format? I'm imagining an iterative all line map using something like GA to select the "best" line configurations at given growth steps. Alain Chiaradia mentioned this idea in a private email to me.
Paul Cotes also sent along the following interesting reply which I am also forwarding to the list below. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
Best,
Noah
********************
From Paul:
"prodded by your email and the interest on your mailing list, I have stuck a
couple of things on our wiki
if you go to the ceca wiki published version
http://wiki.uelceca.net/avamsccomputingdesign/published/HomePage
scroll down to Paul Coates
click on and then look for alpha syntax bits (new) on my page. There you will
find a live netlogo app of some stuff I did on an implementation of
generative space syntax with three state CA which people can play with.
.The paper describes the model and also early stuff I did for Bill Hillier
many years ago.
-----------------------------------
also I examined some dipl eng students in Berlin in 2005 who had done some
good work using space syntax measures as fitness functions for a GA that
worked really well in generating spatial layouts in architecture including
corridors and such. their thesis was called 'Design Code' by Jorg Kramer and
Jan-Oliver Kunze under Prof Finn Geipel, Labor fur integrative Architectur TU
Berlin (sorry I cant be bothered with the German umlauts)
I have the pdf but its 14 mb. maybe they have got a website by now worth
googling for
----------------------------------------
at CECA we have been doing some generative urban modelling with our partners
AEDAS architects, and have just got a grant to trial these techniques for two
London boroughs, but this is not strictly alpha syntax, just anything that
works.
Paul Coates
Centre for Evolutionary Computing in Architecture
University of East London
UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Batty [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wed 4/11/2007 12:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc:
Subject: Re: Generative syntax applications
Lot of work done on network growth many years ago in geography in the
1950s and 1960s on diffusion analysis a la Hagerstrand. Scale free
networks are essentially growth models and all the stuff in that
area, thousands of papers in this area - see
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//gp/reader/0691113572/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-7970370-7181763#reader-link>
The Structure and Dynamics of Networks: (Princeton Studies in C
The Structure and Dynamics of Networks: (Princeton Studies in
Complexity) (Paperback)
by
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//exec/obidos/search-handle-url/102-7970370-7181763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Mark%20Newman>Mark
Newman (Author),
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//exec/obidos/search-handle-url/102-7970370-7181763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Albert-Laszlo%20Barabasi>Albert-Laszlo
Barabasi (Author),
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//exec/obidos/search-handle-url/102-7970370-7181763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Duncan%20J.%20Watts>Duncan
J. Watts (Author) "Networks are everywhere..."
(<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//gp/reader/0691113572/ref=sib_fs_top/102-7970370-7181763?ie=UTF8&p=S00D&checkSum=IIVNnHLoz0SsgVQkluiVTgTGtACyhqeWvakvlJk25LI%3D#reader-link>more)
Key Phrases:
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//phrase/New-York/ref=cap_top_0/102-7970370-7181763>New
York,
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//phrase/United-States/ref=cap_top_1/102-7970370-7181763>United
States,
<http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Dynamics-Networks-Princeton-Complexity/dp/0691113572/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b//phrase/Department-of-Physics/ref=cap_top_2/102-7970370-7181763>Department
of Physics (more...)
and I did some stuff recently on this -
Batty, M. (2006) Hierarchy in Cities and City Systems, in D. Pumain
(Editor) Hierarchy in the Natural and Social Sciences, Springer,
Dordrecht, Netherlands, 143-168.
Batty, M. (2005) Network Geography: Relations, Interactions, Scaling
and Spatial Processes in GIS, in P. F. Fisher, and D. Unwin (Editors)
Re-presenting GIS, John Wiley, Chichester, UK, 149-169.
and also in CA modeling
Xie, Y., and Batty, M. (1996) Possible Urban Automata, Environment
and Planning B, 24, 175-192; also in E. Besussi, and A. Cecchini
(Editors) Artificial Worlds and Urban Studies, DAEST, Conveni. n.1,
Venezia, Italia, 1996, 177-205.
Mike
>Mike / CASA readers, I'm aware of your CA urban growth models in
>this regard. Has anyone explicitly looked at models for network
>growth algorithms? Alan, I'm very much looking forward to learning
>more about your and Chiron's work.
>
>Best,
>Noah
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Penn
>Sent: Wed 4/11/2007 4:42 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Cc:
>Subject: Re: Generative syntax applications
>
>Noah,
>
>Most of the work I am aware of in this area has aimed at defining rules or
>processes in which these type of 'norms' emerge, rather than just coding
>them directly as rules into the generation process. This is because analytic
>interest is in investigating the question 'how might what we see in real
>cities have happened?' The first example is in the Social Logic of Space
>with the beady ring villages. The main name to search for in the literature
>is Paul Coates. He and his students at the University of East London have
>been working in this area for years. Bill Erickson and Tony Lloyd-Jones gave
>a paper in the first space syntax symposium:
>http://www.spacesyntax.net/symposia/SSS1/SpSx%201st%20Symposium%2097%20-2003
>%20pdf/1st%20Symposium%20Vol%20I%20pdf/3%20-%20Comparative%20cities/11-Erick
>son%20300.pdf
>It would be worth looking up Fatiha Salah-Salah's (1987) Cities in the
>Sahara: spatial structure and generative processes, PhD Thesis, University
>of London, in which she reproduced local building rules from North African
>Islamic settlements. There have been a series of relevant pieces of work at
>CASA - look in particular at David O'Sullivan, and of course Mike Batty's
>work on urban generative processes. Chiron Mottram and I are working on
>combining agents with forward long distance vision and a kind of retail
>economy in the generation of urban landscapes. Agents actively seek
>different kinds of goods, shops survive or fail according to how many agents
>find them, shops interrupt vision and so define the spatial morphology. He
>will be presenting a paper on this at the Istanbul Symposium this year.
>
>Alan
>
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've been getting some great questions recently from students at MIT
> > asking if any space syntax "rule sets" have been applied in a generative
> > design setting, i.e., urban growth modeling, street network evolution,
> > design option generation, etc.
> >
> > Examples of such rules might include "longest lines tend to meet at
> > shallow angles", "minimize block size in central areas", etc. as per some
> > of Bill's early work.
> >
> > Does anyone know if anyone has pursued this line of thought in a
> > computational or design setting? Any examples on the web perhaps?
> >
> > Thanks and best wishes to all.
> >
> > Noah
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