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PSCI-COM  March 2007

PSCI-COM March 2007

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Subject:

Re: Job opportunities at Thinktank Birmingham Science Museum

From:

Lyndsey Clark <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

psci-com: on public engagement with science

Date:

Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:54:13 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (423 lines)

There is a way it could be changed - but it involves everyone in science centres agreeing to have less staff members for any given amount of funding.

The situation is very similar to that in Museums. The Museums Association has now published Salary Guidelines which all adverts for new staff should adhere to. 
http://www.museumsassociation.org/asset_arena/text/2]/policy_salaryguidelines[2].pdf 
Science Centre staff might find it interesting to compare their job requirements to those in museums.

The problem is, organisations will always want to get the most for their money (£24k funding = one decently waged, experienced person who can afford to stay with you or two new graduates willing to work for peanuts but who will have to move on in a year or two). 

The MA is a very similar body to Ecsite in terms of its role and influence on its members. Salary guidelines are not enforceable. 

I should say, not all job adverts in the museums sector do adhere to the MA salary guidelines but at least there as a formal note of 'best practice'.

Lyndsey
(ex-science centre and current museum employee).


-----Original Message-----
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kate Treacy
Sent: 23 March 2007 10:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job opportunities at Thinktank Birmingham Science Museum

Hi,

I just wanted to add my comments to the stream about the wages for Science Centre staff....

After graduating from uni I worked for 2 years in the education team of a science centre. The pay was rubbish, the hours were long and it was hard work. I knew this when I took on the role but I also knew what great opportunities it would give to me that would far outweigh the financial costs. The science centre knew how valuable their staff were as a resource and although could not afford to pay us our worth (less face it, if life was fair and everyone got paid what they were worth people like nurses and firemen would be millionaires), they provided first class training and gave me invaluable and unique experience that many of my peers who were in well paid jobs lacked.

I saw it, like my degree, an investment in my career. It was tough to survive on a low wage, but I did it. I'm now in a much better position financially thanks, in the main, to the experience gained in those two years. I did have to leave in the end as I couldn't carry on on such a low wage and it's a shame there is such a high turnover of staff, but I can't see what science centres can do to change that - as it's been said before, they are not for profit organisations.

I think as a group we all agree that the pay offered by science centres is terrible, but surely our discussion time would be better spent working on a solution - are there any ways that members could perhaps give suggestions of how this can change? Does anyone know of pots of funding out there that science centres can apply for to help them with this? Is it a government issue that's worth lobbying?

Kate



----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:42:01 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job opportunities at Thinktank Birmingham Science Museum
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> When I did my PGCE (2003/4) and we had a session on what you can do once 
> you've qulified as a teacher,  the advice was to only consider 
> museum/science comminication work straight away because you  wouldn't be 
> able to survive the drop in salary if you taught first!
> Ruth
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dominic McDonald" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job opportunities at Thinktank Birmingham Science 
> Museum
> 
> 
> I'm grateful to those who have refined my calculation of the hourly pay of 
> the Thinktank job: those refinements only reinforce the point I was trying 
> (obliquely) to make. Which is this: science communication jobs are getting 
> to the point where the entry level salaries are so low that ONLY those who 
> are able to rely on the support of their family will be able to get a start. 
> This is similar to what has happened across big chunks of the media. We seem 
> to be stumbling into some kind of dutch auction where even those of us who 
> DO pay a good salary will find that they are getting job applications from 
> people who have been through the low-paid route, and so who have much more 
> experience than those who have NOT been through the low-paid route.
> 
> I don't want to suggest for a minute that these people are anything less 
> than very good at their job. I work, and have worked with several people of 
> this type and they're fantastic. But a lot of what I gets me excited about 
> the whole Science Communication thing is that it promotes inclusion, extends 
> democracy, and allows me to explore other interesting ways of hugging trees. 
> So if we have an entire community which is being drawn from the middle 
> classes (other people like me, in fact) then it's hard for us to demonstrate 
> our willingness to extend our reach to those audiences who we find "hard to 
> reach".
> 
> The only way out of it that I know of is an industry-wide protocol which 
> lays out the expected salaries of people doing certain types of jobs. Is 
> there an appetite for that?
> 
> Love
> Sweetness
> & Light
> 
> Dom
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of josh nall
> Sent: 22 March 2007 16:26
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job opportunities at Thinktank Birmingham
> Science Museum
> 
> 
> Annabel,
> 
> Engineers often get higher PhD funding that humanities
> students because their funding is topped up by
> commercial sponsorship (for example, my Brother's
> aeronautical engineering PhD came with a c£3000 top-up
> from Westland Helicopters). Friends of mine starting
> out in chemistry PhDs are getting nearer £11,000 per
> year funding, while HPS PhDs appear to get less than
> £10,000.
> 
> As a second point, £12,000 is, in reality, not likely
> to represent any more money than the £8500 you got as
> a student. PhD funding comes tax-free, and students
> don't have to pay council tax. Once you take these
> deductions off £12,000 (say roughly 30% overall, which
> is generous), you get £8,400. As someone who is coming
> to the end of their HPS MPhil and looking for a job in
> publishing/sci-comms, I can only add to the large
> number of people who have already noted how paltry
> this salary is. There is absolutely no way I would be
> able to work for so little - it might be possible to
> live off this much if you still get support from your
> family, but as an independent graduate with debt, it
> is not a realistic salary.
> 
> I suspect that Thinktank realise that they will get
> enough applicants regardless of the salary, as they
> know what an enticing job it is on offer. My great
> concern with this situation is that sci-comms will go
> the way of TV, and end up creating a barrier to less
> well-off applicants. For those of us who cannot rely
> on economic support from our parents beyond university
> (and who have large debts to pay off), it may become
> impossible to get a starting job is sci-comms.
> 
> Is anyone else concerned about this? I'd be interested
> to know what people think, especially with regards to
> possible solutions. I'm certainly well aware that many
> sci-comms employers are far from wealthy, so is it
> inevitable that we're going to see £12,000 starting
> salaries?
> 
> Josh Nall
> 
> 
> 
> --- Annabel Cook  wrote:
> 
> > £12,000 sounds a lot when compared to £8,500 I got
> > when doing my PhD
> > (around 5 years ago)...  My final year I was paid
> > about £800 more, to
> > cover my writing up period (which took 12 months).
> > Why are scientists
> > generally so poorly paid?  I knew engineers doing
> > PhDs at the same time
> > as me who were getting more than twice as much.
> >
> > Annabel
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Annabel Cook
> > Science Engagement and Communications Officer
> > The Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics
> > Roosevelt Drive
> > Oxford
> > OX3 7BN
> >
> > Email:  [log in to unmask]
> > Tel:  01865 287649
> > Fax:  01865 287650
> >
> > Sophia Collins wrote:
> > > Exactly. Thanks to the working time directive
> > everyone (even TV
> > > freelancers) are entitled to four weeks paid
> > holiday. And we all know
> > > that no-one works a 37.5 hour week - 40 is much
> > more realistic.
> > >
> > > £12,000/52 = £230.77 a week/40 = £5.77/hr
> > >
> > > You'd probably be better off waitressing.
> > >
> > >> From: "C.A.Stokes" 
> > >> Reply-To: "psci-com: on public engagement with
> > science"
> > >> 
> > >> To: [log in to unmask]
> > >> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job opportunities at
> > Thinktank Birmingham
> > >> Science Museum
> > >> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:36:46 -0000
> > >>
> > >> Most employees are entitled to at least four
> > weeks' _paid_ holiday. I
> > >> don't
> > >> think the mere fact that you are being paid the
> > minimum wage strips
> > >> you of
> > >> that entitlement.
> > >>
> > >> Also, how many in this line of work really do
> > work no longer than 37.5
> > >> hours
> > >> per week, whatever it says in their contracts?
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: psci-com: on public engagement with
> > science
> > >> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> > Dominic McDonald
> > >> > Sent: 22 March 2007 12:50
> > >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >> > Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Job opportunities at
> > Thinktank
> > >> > Birmingham Science Museum
> > >> >
> > >> > Just to add a little mathematical rigour to the
> > discussion:
> > >> > if we assume a 37.5 hour week, and an annual 20
> > days holiday
> > >> > + 8 Bank Holidays, then £12,000/year equates to
> > £6.89/hour.
> > >> >
> > >> > The minimum wage is £5.35/hour, rising to £5.52
> > in October.
> > >> >
> > >> > Love
> > >> > Sweetness
> > >> > & Light
> > >> >
> > >> > Dom
> > >> >
> > >> > Dom McDonald
> > >> > Head of Public Programmes
> > >> > The Oxford Trust
> > >> > Science Oxford
> > >> > 1-5 London Place
> > >> > Oxford OX4 1BD
> > >> > tel: 01865 728953
> > >> > fax: 01865 791854
> > >> > www: oxtrust.org.uk
> > >>
> > >>
> >
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> ____________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Photos is now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo. 
> http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
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This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.

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