I guess I had seen it as the start of a poem rather than an introduction to
a poem, one that I was stuck with. I've also decided, if I write it at all,
to simplify it and what the first line will be. I don't know how our
discussion has helped me to conclude that, but apparently it has. Now I just
have to find the time.
Another effort was to try something different in the way of subbing. It
would be conceivable to sub a poem with words or lines or even a whole
stanza missing. The reason it would be missing would be that the missing
part was too difficult, or not working out. It depends on how you formulate
a workshop.
I've had another chance to read R Browning's Last Duchess poem, which I
hadn't read for many years and I'm even more impressed by it as a result of
reading Pennine Poets as it deploys techniques and approaches that I didn't
know existed until recently. It's also one of those poems where the poet
doesn't speak directly to the reader. Everything is manifest in the mind of
the reader rather than on the page, which I think suits most modern tastes.
The degree of uncertainty in a poem is a topic that crops us from time. I'm
probably quite far along the spectrum towards liking a definite content.
However I respect poets and readers who prefer a more covert approach. I
don't even know if covert is the right word. I'm probably offending someone
by using it. I guess I want to say that I would honour it, just as I honour
people in everyday life who are doing things differently from the way I
would do them. I'm probably fairly tolerant of explanations of poems
provided by poets, or associates, as long as they are at the back of the
book in a separate section, with the option of turning to them if the wish
arises. The Collected Poems of S.Plath for example has handy notes at the
back which add rather than subtract from my enjoyment of the poems. I think
people who are reading aloud have to be more cautious, because the audience
has made an effort to be there and even the effort of getting up and going
elsewhere is not nothing -whereas the effort of choosing not to read
something is negligible. Many of the poets I warm too have autobiographies
or published letters and separate books outlining their thoughts - i.e.
their thoughts in themsleves and not an introduction to the poems or
explanation of them. However I respect people (probably the majority at
present) who do not warm to this kind of poet. I'm looking for something
that I can import into my own experience. I want it to add to my psychic
life, rather than just to titillate it. If I really like a poem I'll learn
it off by heart and recite it silently or out loud (if I'm at least three
miles from other people) to know it more fully.
I'm also aware that even when I'm trying to write with a definite content
the result is often ambiguous, at best, and then it's more likely to appeal
to people who liked covert poetry in the first place.
I'm not so keen on what I would call prosaic poetry, where the content is
non-metaphorical and looked at another way its just metrical prose. It might
be very good metrical prose, a Shakespearean sonnet for example, but for me
the metaphor is key because it fuses somatic and semantic consciousness.
Novels can do this too, but they are so spread out that the experience is
disseminated. Poetry does this best. I would not say that poetry should
aspire to the condition of music or painting but that painting and music
should aspire to the condition of poetry, that is if they are not confident
enough if in what they are doing already.
Colin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally James" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: pre-sub/Sally J/Gill
> Yes you are right Gill. I do look forward to seeing your poem Colin and
> future poems too. best wishes sally j
>
>
>>From: Gill McEvoy <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: pre-sub/Sally J/Gill
>>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:53:44 -0000
>>
>>I wonder if we're all missing the point a bit? Colin mentioned in his
>>original post that he was wondering about writing up this idea as a poem
>>and gave us an outline of what he had in mind. I found it interesting to
>>see what was forming in his head, also felt quite touched that he trusted
>>enough to let us see this, and wondered what he would make of a final
>>attempt, what would emerge. I feel it's rather different from giving us an
>>introduction, pre or post, to an already written poem as he states that
>>he's not yet written the poem. In fact he seems to be pondering as to
>>whether the idea is worth running with (if I have read his post
>>correctly). Most definitely it is. Any idea is worth following up. It can
>>be discarded later if it doesn't work.
>>The response has been very varied but I would like to make it clear to
>>Colin that I actually admired his courage in sharing this, and found it a
>>kind of honour to be allowed a glimpse into the poet's early process.
>>And I do hope that we will see the result, but Colin may decide not to
>>continue with it.
>>best wishes to everyone, and fruitful 'processes',
>>Gill
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally James" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:24 AM
>>Subject: Re: pre-sub/Sally J/Gill
>>
>>
>>Yes I know what you mean Matt. A poet and a former tutor who has open
>>poetry
>>floor poetry nights around here always says never let the introduction be
>>longer than the poem you are reading. But to have explanations at the
>>beginning and the end also is a bit too much I agree. An lintroduction
>>draws
>>the audience in but afterwards I think it should be left for the
>>listener's
>>own in imagination to take over. best wishes sally j
>>
>>
>>>From: Matt Merritt <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: pre-sub/Sally J/Gill
>>>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:15:39 +0000
>>>
>>>I've got mixed feelings on this, and I think it depends on what the
>>>introduction contains. I can enjoy, at readings, when a poet talks a
>>>little bit around the poem, but I'm not very keen on them explaining too
>>>much.
>>>I went to a reading recently at which a pretty well known Irish poet,
>>>whose written work I like a lot, did lengthy intros to each poem, in
>>>which he pretty much 'explained' them. He then talked about each poem
>>>afterwards too, all of which completely took the shine off the poems
>>>themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Gary Blankenship <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: pre-sub/Sally J/Gill
>>>>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:55:34 -0800
>>>>
>>>>If I may step in. A favorite author of mine is Harlen Elison, who was
>>>>known
>>>>for his story introductions, often longer and more entertaining than the
>>>>story. I've thought for some time that poets miss an opportunity by not
>>>>penning more introductions as to why the poem, how it came to be.
>>>>
>>>>Smiles.
>>>>
>>>>Gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gary's book, A River Transformed at http://www.lulu.com/content/178110
>>>>
>>>>Jan and last FireWeed ready to read.
>>>>at http://www.mindfirerenew.com.
>>>>
>>>>Gar's blog at http://garydawg.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>MSN Hotmail is evolving - check out the new Windows Live Mail
>>>http://ideas.live.com
>>
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>>
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>
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