Don't worry about something being lost in the lead in. This one was stalled 
anyway and I just hoped that by gathering comments, it would get the process 
re-started. If not for that thought I would have left it stalled.

However, it raises the question of statements of intent in poetry. W. 
Wordsworth's Prelude is an example. I prefer it to the Excursion which was 
the thing in itself. Then there is the beginning of Paradise Lost by J. 
Milton, which I also like, even if I don't agree with the metaphysics. I'm 
not aware of another starting sentence as long, from, "Of Man's first 
disobedience... all the way to.... that with no middle flight intends to 
soar above the Ionian mount while it pursues things unattempted yet in prose 
or rhyme." Then there's Yeats's Lake Isle of Innesfree in which he tells us 
that he's going to get up and do all sorts of things. After that there are 
general poems in the future tense, like Bob's one subbed a while back about 
a fellow on a train.

But I suppose all the poems about the future pale in comparison to those 
reflecting on the past. There are very few that look at both past and 
future. In Ikebana (Japanese flower arranging), the arranger may have three 
stems of a single species, one in bud, one in perfect bloom and one decayed, 
to capture the passage of time.

I agree that the best poems are heralded by intense thought (if that's what 
you meant Sally). In a way it's not conscious space that matters but 
unconscious space. You can always divide up a day into five minute slots and 
put all kinds of things in for conscious completion, like brushing shoes, 
but the unconscious mind is not so easily deceived, and sticks to just one, 
or at most two or three things at a time. If the conscious mind can project 
it into the unconscious, then you've got a chance of a poem, but if not, in 
my experience at least it's inclined to stall.

Colin



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sally James" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: pre-sub


I am waiting to see this poem now Colin. Sometimes I don't know where my
poems come from. It is interesting to see how your poem is developing in
your mind before it actually reaches the page. I know my poems are written
in my head long before I write them down but how they get there is another
thing. Years ago I went to a writers convention and one novelist said that
she never talks about her novel whilst she is writing it. She went on to say
that when she has talked about her characters or plot before completion then
somehow the "magic" is lost.  I have remember this ever since and somehow
this is true for me. I do write prose and I have found after the first ten
thousand words I am dying to show someone, but maybe that is why I have
about three or four unfinished novels knocking about. I do look forward to
your poem Colin and look forward to seeing it on the screen,. I don't think
the general public realise how much work goes into a poem it is such
condensed  thought saying so much in just a few words. The poems I give the
most thought to I am mulling over in my head for ages. Sometimes the thought
disapears and I have lost it for good but if it reappears then I know it
just has to be written and these are generally my best poems. best wishes
sally j


>From: Colin Dewar <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: pre-sub
>Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:42:21 -0000
>
>Generally I submit poems that are at a fairly advanced stage, even if they 
>do not seem it. However this time I thought I would sub something that is 
>so close to inception that it hardly exists yet, to see if anyone would 
>contribute c and c to a proto-poem.
>
>No words have been put on paper yet, but the poem would contrive art as a 
>search for status rather than a search for enlightenment, or at least 
>manifest the risk of this. The narrator is talking to a potential partner 
>about a painting of a (male) peacock that he has just done, and is perhaps 
>showing it to her. As far as he is aware it is evidence of his aesthetic 
>and enlightened nature, but the potential partner, is likely to be aware 
>that he is just using the painting to glorify himself (without realising 
>it). He is also a rich person, which may be why he can afford to paint, and 
>it is conceivable that the potential partner is really more interested in 
>this side of things anyway. In other species where males are generally not 
>able to accumulate resources, there is often a gaudiness, and in the 
>females a drabness which operates in reverse to the typical the human 
>pattern, or what has been historically the human pattern. I haven't decided 
>yet whether that is significant in the poem. A model I could draw from 
>would be R. Browning's Last Duchess dramatic monologue,  which has a 
>sub-text that is never made explicit, but leaves the audience with a clear 
>understanding of how things really stand.
>
>Colin
>
>
>

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