I'm not so sure about "I" being ruinous to a poem
(Wordsworth, for one, would beg to differ)
when that's clearly not the case with (faux
confessional) fiction or stage/movie adaptations of
_Sybil_, for example, speaking of multiple personality
disorder. What does seem to be the case is that "you"
is now more conventional--to the point of being
tiresome, I think.
I've been at work for years now on a long poem in
which "I" never appears at all, yet which is made to
seem autobiographical. It's a poem about/demonstration
of dispossession, and it may well end up out of my
league entirely. It's even got a reference to Matthew
Arnold. I mean, how lame can you get?
I think the emphasis on "I," Stephen, to attempt to
answer your question, is an issue in what Christopher
Walker helpfully terms "lyric (or lyrical?) address."
It seems absolutely right to separate poetic address
from "ordinary language" address, where it might well
be taken for mere narcissism, while its use in fiction
goes un(re)marked. With drama, I don't know, as I
don't recall ever reading/seeing a play that starts
with "I" instead of, say, "What a dump!" (Spot that
quote.)
Maybe you're right to question "I's" centrality, but
can any other pronoun/"anti-verb" really compete with
it, apart from (maybe) "you" and "we"? "He" or "she"
occurs sometimes but far less powerfully than "I" or
"you," while it would be an unusual poem that cast
"they" as the major pronoun of address. I think "I's"
primacy as speaker in a poem has something to do with
(the effect) of sincerity.
Candice
...only ghosts can live
Between two fires
(C. Day-Lewis)
-- Stephen Vincent <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hate to break it to you, Hal. If your poetry is not
> making money, you are
> definitely not a "pronoun."
>
> I hear an "anti-verb" poetry sits very still on the
> line.
>
> I am a little puzzled, too, frankly, with this
> focus on "I". An "I" point
> of view is more often than not ruinous to a poem. I
> think I spent most of my
> twenties getting "I" out of my poems - as a way into
> a poetry much more open
> and authoritative in multiple respects. ("In truth",
> one's use of an "I" in
> a poem - in terms of one's consciousness - is but
> one 'I' among a most often
> \ badly run congress of warring, multiple "I"s. (If
> it's really over the
> top, a writer will turn making plays with multiple
> personalities!)
>
> At best, in terms of poetry I have grown to like
> best, more often than not
> "the (poem's) eyes have it."
>
> Stephen V
>
>
>
>
> > Am I pronoun or antinoun? I wonders.
> >
> > Hal
> >
> > "We are in the age of nerves. The muscle hangs,
> > Like a memory, in museums . . ."
> > --Vicente Huidobro
> >
> > Halvard Johnson
> > ================
> > [log in to unmask]
> > [log in to unmask]
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> >
> > On Feb 25, 2007, at 8:56 AM, MC Ward wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Joanna,
> >>
> >> You're right, I think, to view "I" as inevitably
> >> iconic and constructivist, but what I was
> responding
> >> to in Jon's post was the "in poetry" part. It
> doesn't
> >> seem to me that using "I" in poetry (as opposed
> to
> >> drama, say) marks a major difference among the
> >> possible pronouns OR the relevant genres.
> >>
> >> Candice
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Isn't any use of "I" to some extent an artifice,
> a
> >>> construct? If I say "I",
> >>> I'm meaning my ideas of myself, which almost
> >>> certainly don't align with
> >>> other people's views of me.
> >>>
> >>> joanna
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "MC Ward" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:26 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Why poetry, in particular? Isn't the mask an
> >>> artifice
> >>>> of art, and doesn't its assumption occur as
> >>> well--or
> >>>> even better--in drama/acting and in fiction? To
> >>> say
> >>>> "I" in such generic contexts is to deny, on the
> >>> one
> >>>> hand, the very singularity of the first-person
> >>>> singular voice while ostensibly promoting the
> >>>> (generic) singularity of, say, poetry.
> >>>>
> >>>> Candice
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --- Jon Corelis <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In poetry, to say "I" is to put on the mask.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
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