what are we trying to describe?  
Ethnic and racial categorisation in the UK has roots in the USA... And many UK diversity policies were designed by learning lessons from the American civil rights movement and subsequent attempts to 'redress' legacies of centuries of institutionalised racism and discrimination. 
Measuring ethnic/racial differentials is not done simply as an academic exercise... As a practitioner I understand it as a task which should serve a wider mission. Ultimately, we are trying to measure progress - or non-progress, towards mitigating or removing unfair inequalities in society. 


Cheikh Traoré
London 



-----Original Message-----
From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lisa fontes
Sent: 26 February 2007 12:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Categorisation of BME communities


Not being from the UK, I'm not even sure what BME stands for. But from this discussion, it appears that people who belong to the BME category would be all lumped into one group, but the "white others" would be distinguishable? Am I right or wrong about that? So would Estonians be differentiated from Lithuanians, but Trinidadians and Jamaicans and Congolese and Angolans and Black British be lumped together?

We struggle endlessly with these issues in the U.S., too, and the systems here are poor at best. One of the main problems in the U.S. is that when the census bureau added "native Americans" to the category choices, MILLLIONS more people checked that box than they had for "American Indian" ten years earlier. So the question becomes, is this a question of newfound pride in their native roots, or are people who are born in the U.S. thinking they are NATIVE BORN and not meaning "Indian" at all?

If one is going to consider Irish a subgroup, should one consider ethnic enclaves or religious enclaves that may live even more distinctly, such as--for instance--Hassidic Jews or Seventh Day Adventists--as separate groups? What are we trying to describe, really, a group's history, its language, the fact that it has different customs/needs? So many good minds working on these issues, and yet I believe we are--as academics and practitioners--radically far behind the reality of the world's people. And we have not even begun to address biracial or bi-ethnic or multiethnic peoples.

Lisa Fontes, Ph.D.
Union Institute & University



-----Original Message-----
From: Health of minority ethnic communities in the UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sarah Corlett
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Categorisation of BME communities

Reva
Strictly speaking everything other than White British would count as part of the BME populations.  Where the option for "other" exists across all the categories White, Black etc or simply "other" there should always be space for the person to enter what other they wish to declare themselves.  The CRE template on their website is helpful; http://www.cre.gov.uk/gdpract/em_cat_ew.html#question 
Then when analysing the info one can group people accordingly whether they enter Lithuanian, Estonian, Australian, south African etc in white other or other.  

ONS also gives some guidance on their website about how to aggregate what people in put into "other"  into the headline categories which might help; 
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/about/ethnic_group_statistics/ 

I also see they have done a report http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/article.asp?id=1291 on "WHat are the 'other' ethnic groups?".  The work of ONS on ethnicity and culture is summarised on http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product.asp?vlnk=10991 

You may also find the DH guide helpful http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAndStatistics/Publications/PublicationsPoli
cyAndGuidance/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidanceArticle/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4116839&
chk=xfG3pr

Hope this is of some use
Sarah 




Sarah Corlett
Consultant in Public Health 
Lambeth Primary Care Trust
1 Lower Marsh
London, SE1 7NT
Tel: 020 7716 7097
em: [log in to unmask]

Lambeth Primary Care Trust will be smokefree from 30 December 2005. To protect the health of patients, staff and visitors, smoking will not be allowed in Trust buildings or grounds. For advice and support on giving up, contact Lambeth Stop Smoking Service on 0800 856 3409 or [log in to unmask]  
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