JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for SPM Archives


SPM Archives

SPM Archives


SPM@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SPM Home

SPM Home

SPM  January 2007

SPM January 2007

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: manual

From:

"Ashburner John (PSYCHOLOGY)" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Ashburner John (PSYCHOLOGY)

Date:

Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:33:00 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (103 lines)

> is there a good manual about the preprocessing procedures in spm? 

The manual is pretty comprehensive (256 pages), but we don't necessarily
have all the answers.  Everybody has different data and questions that
they want to attempt to answer with that data.  The choices you make in
your analysis will depend on what works best, and empirical exploration
is sometimes needed.  Chapters 25 and 26 of the manual describe
procedures that work well for data from the FIL.  I would suggest using
these procedures by default, but it is possible that a different
strategy may be better for your particular data.  Similarly, many of the
tools have default settings.  In most cases, I would suggest using these
values.

Just as there is no "canonical design matrix" for fitting any general
linear model through time series data, there is also no single
pre-processing strategy that works best for everything.  There are many
different imaging modalities, field strengths, sequences etc.  Each of
these has its own artifacts, image intensity distributions etc.  Repeat
times, fields of view etc are all very variable.  Some people collect
field maps for correcting distortions.  Some scans have more or less
distortion or dropout than others.  All these things should influence
the choices that are made.

> - do i get better results in normalisation with coreg my epi on the t1

> image and normalize the latter with the t1 template (there is a mail
> in the spm list archives, i think it was john ashburners, who prefers
> normalization with the mean epi image, but it was according spm99)? 

This was applicable six years ago, but hopefully the software (and
data??) are now rather better than they were back then.  This strategy
worked reasonably well for data from the FIL scanner, because the tissue
intensities and artifacts in the data were similar to those in the
templates.  Back in the late 20th century, spatial normalization was
done by warping the subject's images so that the intensity differences
between the image and template were minimized.  The relative intensities
of the different tissue types had to be similar for the template and
individual image for this to work.

Things can be done slightly differently by SPM5.  If you use the Segment
button for estimating spatial normalization parameters, then no
assumptions about the intensity of the different tissue types are made -
other than grey matter is all about the same intensity, and that white
matter and CSF also have fairly uniform intensities.  The Segment
procedure also models out intensity non-uniformity artifact.  In the
past, many of the spatial normalization procedures encountered problems
because of this artifact - but the situation should be slightly improved
by now.

It is still possible that using the Segment button with your EPI data
could produce more accurate spatial normalization than estimating the
warps from your anatomical images, and applying them to your
coregistered fMRI data.  This will mostly depend on the amount of
distortion in your fMRI.  Because coregistration only estimates a
rigid-body transformation, then it may not necessarily determine an
accurate alignment between the functional and anatomical data.  Even if
your spatially normalized anatomical data are all in alignment with MNI
space, if the anatomical and functional data are not in register, then
the spatially normalized functional data may not be so accurately
aligned with each other.  This is something that is data dependant, and
may need empirical exploration in order to figure out the best strategy.

It is possible that distortions in fMRI data have not been taken
seriously enough by us SPM authors.   In fact, I'm not sure they are
taken seriously enough by others either - especially in terms of the
effects of such mis-registration on surface based analysis methods.


> or - do i have to estimate & resclice images in the coreg step or is
it
> enough to just estimate (by the way, reslicing "blows" up my single
epi
> images to a size of the t1 image (160mb) and therefore it takes
hours). 

As Simon points out, you don't need to do any reslicing at this stage
(maybe I'll take out the Coregister and Reslice option from the next SPM
release).  Avoiding such un-necessary reslicing was my main motivation
for introducing the .mat files that confused (and still confuse) so many
people for so long.  These .mat files are no longer used (except for 4D
data).  Image orientations are now written straight into the .hdr files.
The Check reg button is useful for seeing if your images are considered
by SPM to be in register with each other.


> the spm5 manual is no real help, because it just describes the single 
> features, but gives no advise what do do. the typical related papers
> are no real help either, because their are overloaded with
mathematical
> terms and procedures, i do not understand.
> so anything around for a dummy who just want to drive a car without
> being a mechanic?

Currently, SPM can be thought of as a bunch of components - rather than
a complete car, so you'll sometimes have to be a mechanic as well as a
driver.  Making it work in good driving conditions is generally fairly
straightforward, but customization is sometimes needed for other
situations.  One of the features of SPM is that it is relatively easy to
get at what is under the bonnet.

Best regards,
-John

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager