Thoughts on recent topics:
 
Origins of self-described modern paganism:  These might go back further than the 20th century.  I can remember at least one person mentioned in McIntosh's ELIPHAS LEVI AND THE FRENCH OCCULT REVIVAL who described himself as pagan and non-Christian at Levi's time.  There might also be some material in Hutton of interest, but I'd have to go back and look.
 
Muslim witchcraft:  I looked for this a little while ago and found a few sources.  Let me know if you want them.
 
Oral history: I don't think that the preference for documented sources is necessarily merely part of an ideology.  Although there are some cultures that might have preserved accurate histories for vast periods of time, I've heard that after a generation, the material often starts to drift in terms of accuracy.  Plus, while a document might have a particular viewpoint, but an oral tradition might pass through several interlocutors with their own viewpoints and interpretations.  There's often an unspoken essentialization of groups, organizations, and cultures that lies behind the assumptions some scholars bring to oral tradition.  That's not to say that it can't be valuable, but I can certainly understand the caution.
 
Dan Harms
Coordinator of Instruction Librarian
State University of New York - Cortland
Memorial Library B-110
(607) - 753-4042

________________________________

From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic on behalf of Kathryn Evans
Sent: Sun 12/3/2006 12:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Christian/muslim witches


Diane said,

	"those who would practice what Mogg described below would not have considered themselves "witches" per se....it would be other Christians pointing a finger and screaming "Witch" that would be the rule of the day." 

 
In a sense then, it comes down to levels/degrees of tolerance that differ in every instance. When the degree of "otherness" goes beyond the level of tolerance, the unwitcher labels/stigmatizes the "other."
 
This makes for an interesting dilemma when attempting Academic collaboration. In consulting with scholars whom I assumed to be experts in Latin at least, and the second specializing in witch trials, I found walls of intolerance that in my naiveté I had not expected. 
 
The first professor/scholar (TAC, and Princeton graduate), when I was sharing the hexagram imagery as part of my work on De Magia naturali, said something like, as long as it's not the five-pointed star--we've been warned about that! End of that effort at collaboration.
 
The second a scholar of witch trials (GTU, TAC graduate, member of the ASE listserv) thought that the Church had not gone against Pico della Mirandola, so I commented that we have probably researched different sources. He suggested that I not give it all away to Spirit in my thesis and translation work. That issue was already a done deal, as my thesis was near completion and the translation work well underway. End of that effort at collaboration.
 
My thesis intimates foul play regarding the circumstances of Pico's death, but that's probably old news to more seasoned Medieval scholars researching the field of esotericism anyway. That probable poisoning-or-what-have-you played an important role in the De Magia naturali remaining unpublished.
 
These interactions have led me to ponder just what church/ideology is behind the trend in Academic history for "manuscript evidence"? Some claim that the oral stories of witch trials and hunts and oppressions are blown out of proportion, and that Academic historians need to stick with manuscript evidence for accurate numbers oppressed. Does the same church in fact control access to and interpretation of those manuscripts? Are the majority of prep schools and elite universities in the US affiliated with or heavily funded by that church and its members? And who gets to learn Latin anymore anyway? Before I entered high school most public schools had stopped teaching it.   
 
Having attempted to share my thesis/DMN work openly with Academia at large, I am now concerned that this response of intolerance may stifle my contributions. Not paranoia now, but more likely naiveté before on my part. I have heard that scholars at major universities (Princeton in one instance) who delve into occult topics keep to their close-knit group of colleagues and generally have been very quiet about it. 
 
I will perhaps look into the possibility of continuing my work under the auspices of a Ph.D. at the University of Kent, since that would authenticate my Academic efforts.
 
Kathryn        
 

	----- Original Message ----- 
	From: Chris Kimberley <mailto:[log in to unmask]>  
	To: [log in to unmask] 
	Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 1:49 AM
	Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Christian/muslim witches

	Diane said,

		"those who would practice what Mogg described below would not have considered themselves "witches" per se....it would be other Christians pointing a finger and screaming "Witch" that would be the rule of the day." 
		 

	In modern Brittany the witch does not understand themselves to be a witch at all. The identity of the witch is revealed by the victim of the bewitching or, more likely, an unwitcher. In many parts of France the Marabout has become a popular unwitcher. Many of these may be from a Muslim culture. In Brittany the traditional desenvouteur (there should be an acute accent over the first e but this editer can't do them :-() still prevails. This is consistent with Favret Saada's (1977,1980) experiance in the Bocage of Mayenne. 
	 
	The witching triangle exists in many cultures. Those I am most familiar with are in sub-Saharan Africa, the Yoruba and Zulu peoples for instance. I am not aware of this triangle, with the witch being unaware of their power, existing in the United Kingdom. In Brittany all actors in the triangle are likely to be Roman Catholic. Their are some odd practices that may include Pagan survivals but that is mostly conjecture. 
	 
	I'm writing up some recent testimonies from informants in the Landes de Lanvaux of the Morbihan. There, the accusations were flying as part of family strife.
	 
	All the best 
	 
	Chris Kimberley