Quite right! If some HE/FE folks want to do their own thing via a separate group, no problem.
There are other non-JISC groups out there already doing their own thing already. One more will not hurt and may benefit that group!
However, JISC itself is a good forum for debate and information for the wider Information Governance and Management community and should remain so.
Iain
Iain Harrison
Information Management Consultant
Leicester City Council
0116 252 7606
>>> "Sharp, Deirdre" <[log in to unmask]> 10/04/06 10:14 am >>>
It ain't broke so don't fix it. Its doing a great job as it is - thank you JISC.
Deirdre
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Matthew Stephenson
Sent: 04 October 2006 09:49
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Records Management' online forum on esd-forum for .gov.uk
Dear Chris,
You can infer all you like but when you are a one-man-FoI officer, being able to bounce ideas off other professionals can be very helpful.
You may consider the closed list to be a bad idea but most members of the HE/FE list find it to be of value, especially those who are not records managers, FoI or DP officers but find that they have been given the responsibility for RM, FoI or DOP anyway. Many of their emails begin "sorry for what must seem a stupid question but ". I get the impression that they are more able to do this on a smaller list.
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Tinsley, Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 04 October 2006 09:39
To: Stephenson Matthew; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Records Management' online forum on esd-forum for .gov.uk
So effectively a closed list is useful when similar types of institutions wish to collude in denying people information.
I realise this is probably not the intention but it certainly can be inferred.
I always read with interest discussions which do not or will not touch on my sector, it keeps the brain keen. I think the closed list would be a bad idea.
Chris Tinsley MSc
Wiltshire County Council
Information is the key
_____
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Matthew Stephenson
Sent: 04 October 2006 09:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Records Management' online forum on esd-forum for .gov.uk
Dear Eldin,
A very good example is when a journalist sends round a FoI request to a large number of institutions. One University will say "we got this request, who else has" and for the next couple of days you'll have dozens of institutions saying "yeah we've got it" or "no we haven't go it, what's it about". I can't imagine that this is of any interest to other sectors.
The next stage of that is when different institutions then discuss how they will deal with the request and I for one would not be prepared to comment on an open list the different options that could be used and how I feel about each one when the resuester could be reading my emails. Having a closed list enables one to be much more honest and open about things like that.
Regards
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eldin Rammell, Rammell Consulting
Sent: 03 October 2006 14:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Records Management' online forum on esd-forum for .gov.uk
Matt,
I don't know if this is possible, but could you provide a couple of examples of issues that you think are more appropriate for a closed list? The beauty of a medium like email is that if a topic comes up that is of no interest, I hit the delete key. Simple. The danger is that folk on a closed may THINK their topic is of no interest but I've been surprised at how much I've learned since joining this list about areas that I've not previously had experience of. I view participation on this list as an important part of my on-the-job education and would certainly miss the input from Government circles.
Regards,
Eldin.
_____
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Matthew Stephenson
Sent: 03 October 2006 12:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Records Management' online forum on esd-forum for .gov.uk
Peter,
I agree with what you have said entirely but I would say that having a smaller closed list for the HE/FE community provides us with a forum for people to say things that they would not necessarily do on an open list and prevents others from having to observe boring sector-specific conversations.
I think that there's space for sectoral closed lists and a large all encompassing open list for everyone depending on the matter being discussed.
Regards
Matt
Matthew Stephenson
Records Manager
Information Services Division
University of Salford
The Crescent
Salford M5 4WT
Tel: 0161 295 3152
Fax: 0161 295 6339
Email: [log in to unmask]
Web: <http://www.isd.salford.ac.uk/governance> www.isd.salford.ac.uk/governance
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Emmerson
Sent: 03 October 2006 12:06
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Records Management' online forum on esd-forum for .gov.uk
Although this list is hosted by JISCMAIL it is not an HE/FE list but one aimed at all records managers. A quick glance at the messages sent to the list over the past week or so indicates that about 90 per cent of contributors are, perhaps not surprisingly, in local government. The HE/FE records managers have already set up a separate, closed list limited to people with a .ac.uk address.
Is this a need for exclusivity a peculiarly British phenomenon? The US and Australian RM lists have remained very open and people from a very wide range of organisations, backgrounds and experience contribute to them. The problem with closed lists is that they exclude insights from people working in other environments who might have a useful contribution to make to the problems you face. Records managers in the UK are not such a large group that they need to continually split into ever smaller employment based groups. Employment simply defines the environment in which you work. It doesn't affect basic professional principles which are pretty well universal.
Peter Emmerson
Director
Emmerson Consulting Limited
Poplar House
5 School Street
Witton-Le-Wear
County Durham DL14 0AS
Office 01388 488865
Mobile 07740 942682
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