Dear John,

I joined this list in order to observe, learn and ask the occasional lay 
question. Your message below enables me hopefully to continue this 
learning process.

I know of very few geneticists who have tried to fit their results to 
linguistics - do you? Is there any reason to believe such correlations 
would be reliable? I thought archaeo-linguistics was the realm of 
certain archaeologists (and also Jared Diamond).

That said, I would be eager to learn what you mean by a 'plausible 
linguistic model'. A model for what, and which period, and based on 
which texts and epigraphic sources?

Who has "now decided that a Germanic language was spoken in England 
before the Roman conquest."? No one that I know of. Should the question 
be asked? Obviously not, in your view.

I would also be keen to learn from you of the epigraphic, textual, 
place-name and personal name evidence that Caesar's Belgae all spoke 
Gaulish. Obviously, Ellis Evans' acknowledgement (in Gaulish Personal 
Names) that only one of the three main regional dialects of Gaul,‘which 
Caesar specifies …(“Belgic, Celtic, Aquitanian”)’ may correspond to the 
modern Celtic-language division at all, and there may have been other 
ancient dialects in addition.' must be out of date. Incidentally are you 
familiar with the evidence for lack of Celtic place-names in most of 
North Gaul in Hans Kuhn's article, ‘Das Zeugnis der Namen’, in: 
Hachmann, R., Kossack, G. and Kuhn, H. (1962), Völker zwischen Germanen 
und Kelten: Schriftquellen, Bodenfunde und Namengut zur Geschichte des 
nördlichen Westdeutschlands um Christi Geburt (Neumunster: 
Karl-Wachholtz-Verlag). pp. 105–35. But I guess that's out of date too, 
like Caesar's comment (De Bello Gallico 2.4) that most of the Belgae 
were descended from the Germani ("Cum ab iis quaereret quae civitates 
quantaeque in armis essent et quid in bello possent, sic reperiebat: 
plerosque Belgos esse ortos a Germanis Rhenumque antiquitus traductos 
propter loci fertilitatem ibi consedisse Gallosque qui ea loca 
incolerent expulisse, ".).

I won't shoot. You are obviously a marksman yourself.

Stephen Oppenheimer

John Briggs wrote:

> I thought that I ought to bring the unwelcome news that the DNA 
> experts, having failed to fit their results to any plausible 
> linguistic model, have now decided that a Germanic language was spoken 
> in England before the Roman conquest. (Except for the Belgae who, 
> being Belgian, spoke Gaulish...) The Celtic-speaking areas were 
> populated by the descendants of the Basques.
>
> (Stephen Oppenheimer, The Origins of the British: A Genetic Detective 
> Story, 2006)
>
> Please don't shoot the messenger.
>
> John Briggs
>