John:
Your understanding tallies with mine.
Adam:
This is an important issue whether or not we have a patent in the EU.
For example, what company would want to develop a VLE that they couldn't
sell or deploy in the USA?
The patent is absolutely ridiculous, as the compendium of prior art in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virtual_learning_environments
demonstrates. I hear that there's going to be a website set up
specifically to dissect the patent item-by-item.
Dan
John Norman wrote:
> My feeble understanding is that there are two issues:
>
> - the EU has not yet agreed that software is patentable, the initial
> proposal was turned down and a new proposal is under consideration with
> the likes of Microsoft and Nokia pushing it.
>
> - meanwhile the European patent office is considering patent
> applications and granting them with a 'pending status' subject to the
> above laws passing.
>
> So the Bb European patent application is *potentially* relevant.
>
> Note: this is not carefully researched information, barely more than
> gossip, but it is what I understand to be true.
>
> John
>
> On 4 Aug 2006, at 10:24, Adam Marshall wrote:
>
>> But what are the realistic chance of the EU adopting the patent? Are we
>> actually worrying about something that will not directly affect us here?
>>
>> adam
>>
>> | -----Original Message-----
>> | From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf
>> | Of Tom Franklin
>> | Sent: 03 August 2006 23:35
>> | To: [log in to unmask]
>> | Subject: Re: [VLES] FW: [sloan-c] Blackboard Patents the LMS
>> |
>> | I have had a response from the JISC Legal service which I will
>> attach at
>> | the end of this message, but first a couple of thoughts which may
>> help to
>> | concentrate any activity where it is most needed.
>> |
>> | There has been discussion here, and elsewhere (the SLOAN-C list for
>> | instance) about moving from VLEs to alternative types of platforms,
>> and of
>> | demonstrating prior art.
>> |
>> | It seems to me that we need a careful reading of the patent, and an
>> | explanation of what it actually covers. I fear that much of the
>> | functionality is not limited to VLEs, but would cover any type of
>> software
>> | that is used to support learning and that has some relationship
>> with other
>> | systems (student record for instance), but this needs checking. If
>> I am
>> | right then moving to the social web or e-portfolios would not
>> overcome the
>> | problem.
>> |
>> | Equally, the need for prior art is not to demonstrate VLEs as such,
>> but
>> | those specific things covered by the patent.
>> |
>> | I have tried (briefly) to read and understand the patent, and will
>> give it
>> | another go, and if I can I will post what I think it covers, but if
>> anyone
>> | else can understand the patent and list here (and copy to the SLOAN-C
>> | list)
>> | exactly what it covers, but in plain English that would be an enormous
>> | help.
>> |
>> | regards
>> |
>> | Tom.
>> |
>> | Tom Franklin
>> | Franklin Consulting
>> | 9 Redclyffe Road
>> | Withington
>> | Manchester
>> | M20 3JR
>> |
>> | email: [log in to unmask]
>> | phone: 0161 434 3454
>> | mobile: 07989 948 221
>> | web: http://www.franklin-consulting.co.uk/
>> | blog: http://tomfranklin.blogspot.com/
>> |
>> | ===============================
>> |
>> |
>> | Dear Tom,
>> | We'll take these under consideration. OSS Watch (www.oss- watch.ac.uk)
>> | will
>> | be putting up a statement before too long, as part of the JISC family.
>> | To give a few short answers to your questions:
>> | Yes, it could affect Moodle and other OSS.
>> | Prior art would generally nullify the patent. Prior art is
>> evidence that
>> | the "invention" wasn't original, and therefore is any indication
>> that the
>> | "invention" was around before the patent-application filing date.
>> I put
>> | "invention" in inverted commas, as the US courts seem to be able a
>> very
>> | wide interpretation of the term.
>> | The US patent doesn't directly affect the UK (unless an institution
>> here
>> | has its VLE server in the USA).
>> | In terms of action, this will be a policy decision, and OSS Watch are
>> | better placed for this than we are. We'll be continuing to work
>> closely
>> | with OSS Watch with regard to the legal aspects, however.
>> |
>> | Overall, it's unwanted uncertainty. Blackboard have had a similar
>> patent
>> | turned down in the EU already, and I hope that their renewed
>> attempt to
>> | get
>> | a European patent again gets turned down.
>> | Cheers,
>> | Jason
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> | --
>> | ----
>> |
>> | For a digest of IT Law relevant to FE and HE, subscribe to JISC-
>> LEGAL-NEWS
>> | - see details at http://www.jisclegal.ac.uk/newsletter.html
>> |
>> |
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>> | --
>> | ----
>> |
>> | Jason Campbell
>> | JISC Legal Service Manager
>> | University of Strathclyde
>> | Alexander Turnbull Building
>> | 155 George Street
>> | Glasgow G1 1RD
>> | Tel: 0141 548 4939 (office)
>> | Tel: 0141 548 2889 (direct)
>> | E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> | -----Original Message-----
>> | From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:tom@franklin-
>> consulting.co.uk]
>> | Sent: 02 August 2006 12:58
>> | To: jisclegal-info
>> | Subject: Enquiry via Web Form
>> |
>> | This message was generated from an HTML form submitted to the
>> generic form
>> | handler at: www.jisclegal.ac.uk The data came from the form at:
>> http://
>> | www.jisclegal.ac.uk/enquiry_form.html
>> | The browser making the request came from 84.68.138.54.
>> | The current date is Wed Aug 2 12:57:53 2006.
>> |
>> |
>> | name : Tom Franklin
>> | email : [log in to unmask]
>> | institution : Franklin Consulting
>> | query_type : legal_query
>> | subjectarea : Virtual Learning Environments
>> | query_text : You may, or may not, have seen the flurry of
>> activity on a
>> | number of lists - including the JISCMail list "VLE" about Blackboard's
>> | patent on learning management systems, and their suing Desire2Learn
>> (see
>> | http://mfeldstein.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/
>> | blackboard_patents_the_lms/, http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/
>> | webadmin?A2=ind0608&L=vle&D=1&T=0&O=D&X=2712B30979DD2BDD94&Y=tom%
>> 40frankli
>> | n-
>> | consulting.co.uk&P=47 etc.)
>> |
>> | I think that it would be extremely helpful if you could post a
>> comment to
>> | the discussion forum answering at least the following questions:
>> |
>> | Could the patenaffect Moodle and other open source products? (I would
>> | assume that the answer is yes)
>> |
>> | What evidence is needed to demonstrate "prior art" and
>> | would this invalidate the patent, or only specific parts of the
>> patent?
>> |
>> | Does the patent affect the UK directly in any way (ie other than
>> affecting
>> | US products or sales to the US)?
>> |
>> | What action, if any should we be taking?
>> |
>> | Thanks for your help.
>> |
>> | Tom
>> |
>> | Tom Franklin
>> |
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>
>
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--
Dan Stowell
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/is/fiso/lifesciences/
Room 139, Medical School, 74 Huntley Street
University College London, London, WC1E 6BT
Tel: +44 (0)20 7679 0888 (within UCL: 40888)
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