If you're looking for "objective and balanced comments" then what's the
point of having a list like this in the first place? I couldn't bear to read
politically correct drivel all day in a mailing list. Being "biased" as you
call it (you mean opinionated) is surely one of the principle raisons d'etre
of a list such as this. If we can't express our opinions, then there's
absolutely no point in beginning the debate in the first place.
And you still think I'm denigrating nurses, which smacks of unintelligence
on your part. I've merely pointed out our differences. If you can't cope
with this then I suggest you've no place in a debate such as this; you
should stick with a more touchy-feely arena where everybody continually asks
each other "what did you do well?".
If this is what happens to nurses who discover academia then I despair even
more...
AF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: I think we have this all wrong - final thoughts
> The main reason that I got involved in this thread (I am normally an
> interested background listener) was that I could not stand back and let
> some
> of the outrageously biased comments made by various members of this list
> go
> by unchallenged. I am pleased (and relieved) to read some more objective
> and
> balanced comments this morning... thanks to Doc Holliday and Rowley
> Cottingham.
>
> If this list is to serve its purpose (no pun intended) then it needs to be
> objective and unbiased in its outlook. A&E and emergency care as a whole
> is
> one of the few areas where doctors and nurse have worked well together
> (often in interchangeable roles e.g. cardiac arrests) and it depresses me
> to
> read postings in which medics use the list to denigrate nurses. I totally
> agree that the last thing that we should be doing is re-igniting the old
> medics v nurses routine so we all need to resist the urge...
>
> I eel that part of the problem is that the majority of the regular
> contributors are medics and obviously senior medics at that and there is
> not
> enough input from nurses of any level (there never has been) to balance
> the
> often one sided 'debates' in which the contributors are simply preaching
> to
> the converted (i.e. likeminded medics) which is neither use nor ornament.
>
> I am going to forward some of these postings to ENP colleagues around the
> country so I will be interested to hear what they think... so you need to
> ask yourself are you feeling lucky eh? Do I know any ENPs in the
> department
> where YOU work? Oops sorry slip of the keyboard there...
>
> RL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accident and Emergency Academic List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Doc Holiday
> Sent: 15 August 2006 06:01
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: I think we have this all wrong
>
>>But that's simply because I can't think of a single advantage of an ENP
>>over a doctor. Not one.
>
> --> ENPs stick around long enough for me to learn their name
> --> ENPs get less complaints from patients
> --> When I arrive to start a shift at 8/9 am and some crap's just happened
> during the past 24 hours that I need to pick up and fix, it was NOT an ENP
> who made it happen...
> --> ENPs do not complain to me that they are spending too much time in
> minors
> --> ENPs can be left in minors for 100% of their clinical time and, at the
> end of the year they have not deskilled at all - do that with a consultant
> and he/she will have a bad appraisal after 12 months in minors.
> --> ENPs do not call GPs and insult them.
> --> ENPs can be appointed if you like them at interview, not "sent" by
> some
> centralised appointing mechanism without you having a say about it
> --> If an ENP arrives on day 1 to work, it is extremely likely that this
> is
> the job he/she wants to be in, while your SHO may well be doing any
> 4-month
> job he/she can get paid for in order to keep the visa or bread on the
> table
> or both.
>
>>I've nothing against ENPs, but to my mind they fulfil a similar function
>>to
>
>>an SHO or junior middle grade, but are less adaptable, less autonomous and
>>often much slower.
>
> --> Slower? You've hired the wrong ENPs then, or you've somehow managed to
> find SHOs who see significantly more than 1-2 patients per hour.
>
>>Don't get me wrong, I like working with my ENP colleagues, but only in the
>>same way I like working with my junior doctors.
>
> --> We wouldn't "get you wrong" if you avoided some of the
> generalisations... If your ENPs colleagues had seen your one previous
> posting in this thread, you may well find you like working with them less
> after that...
>
>>Fascinating that there has been essentially zero positive comment
>>(actually
>
>>zero comment at all other than the various gripes below) to my question
>>regarding the advantages, disadvantages and general usefulness of ENPs.
>
> --> I am away at a conference abroad at the moment. I'll have many
> positive
> comments for you when I return, perhaps off-list
|