collection by SEASON has always been the norm with saijiki
(haiku-collections, which also function as guidebooks to season-words
[called kigo]), with subtopics arranged depending on preference: there
are countless motifs that represent or are included in 'spring', &
normally haiku will be bunched according to that motif (kigo) -- a
dozen or so frog-themed pieces in a row for instance. I'm not a fan of
that system, except for its obvious categorisational value, because it
makes the kigo in question sound a little number each time. haiku,
like moments, occur one at a time, not theme at a time.
KS
On 28/07/06, Frederick Pollack <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kasper" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: snap 26 VII 2006
>
>
> >I can see how the motive of that haiku example might be misconstrued.
> > :-P no ill will intended whatsoever!
> >
> > On 27/07/06, Kasper <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> Douglas:
> >>
> >> both of these poems show an affinity for (poetic) language, & it's a
> >> credit to you, but at the same time that's part of the reason why I
> >> would call these mediocre haiku at best. while the urge to use
> >> metaphor & a form of language that, however strainless, is clearly
> >> poetic is a big one, it's my opinion that it's an urge to be ignored &
> >> circumvented when writing haiku. the abstract loses its strength in a
> >> haiku, because it isn't a natural place for it to be. "Think of my
> >> dead dust" is a line that would be (look sound) brilliant in an
> >> 'actual' poem, but it's too declarative & perhaps lofty to be
> >> effective in a haiku. the first of these two also begins with a
> >> reference to a societal phenomenon, which would make this much closer
> >> to a senryu than a haiku despite its grimness (a haiku is a
> >> continuation of an experience in nature, mentioning the moon doesn't
> >> really cut it).
> >>
> >> the second is more in keeping with the momentariness & imagistic sight
> >> of haiku, & my qualm with it isn't the same as with the first of
> >> these. it's rather that it very clearly is not an image conveyed for
> >> the sake of experience or connection to the depicted moment _itself_,
> >> but for the sake of symbolism. Carlin said "I leave symbolism for the
> >> symbol-minded", & while I don't think he meant it universally that
> >> quote is fitting when it comes to interpreting the haiku spirit.
> >> tangibility, visuality, connectedness are traits of haiku.
> >>
> >> also, if by 'double haiku' you mean these two poems should be seen as
> >> a single one, without a sense of continuity I don't think it's a good
> >> idea. I'm not a fan of 'long' or 'multiple' haiku anyway, it seems
> >> completely counter to what a haiku experience is.
> >>
> >>
> >> Frederick:
> >>
> >> I agree completely with your suggestions, should Douglas choose to
> >> abandon the haiku aspect of this/these altogether. :)
> >> worth a mention here is that haiku traditionally, sensibly, are never
> >> titled. the closest thing to a title would be a short phrase
> >> describing the scenario/situation of the haiku (such as Issa's "At my
> >> daughter's grave, thirty days after her death". Issa is known for his
> >> playful, often humorously morbid & liberal haiku, he's worth checking
> >> out: http://www.poemhunter.com/kobayashi-issa/poet-9275/ . a searing
> >> example (!):
> >>
> >> Writing shit about new snow
> >> for the rich
> >> is not art.
> >>
>
> Kasper - I know nothing about haikus, and I'm curious: if traditional haikus
> were not titled how were they categorized, collected? Were they numbered?
>
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