I can see how the motive of that haiku example might be misconstrued.
:-P no ill will intended whatsoever!
On 27/07/06, Kasper <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Douglas:
>
> both of these poems show an affinity for (poetic) language, & it's a
> credit to you, but at the same time that's part of the reason why I
> would call these mediocre haiku at best. while the urge to use
> metaphor & a form of language that, however strainless, is clearly
> poetic is a big one, it's my opinion that it's an urge to be ignored &
> circumvented when writing haiku. the abstract loses its strength in a
> haiku, because it isn't a natural place for it to be. "Think of my
> dead dust" is a line that would be (look sound) brilliant in an
> 'actual' poem, but it's too declarative & perhaps lofty to be
> effective in a haiku. the first of these two also begins with a
> reference to a societal phenomenon, which would make this much closer
> to a senryu than a haiku despite its grimness (a haiku is a
> continuation of an experience in nature, mentioning the moon doesn't
> really cut it).
>
> the second is more in keeping with the momentariness & imagistic sight
> of haiku, & my qualm with it isn't the same as with the first of
> these. it's rather that it very clearly is not an image conveyed for
> the sake of experience or connection to the depicted moment _itself_,
> but for the sake of symbolism. Carlin said "I leave symbolism for the
> symbol-minded", & while I don't think he meant it universally that
> quote is fitting when it comes to interpreting the haiku spirit.
> tangibility, visuality, connectedness are traits of haiku.
>
> also, if by 'double haiku' you mean these two poems should be seen as
> a single one, without a sense of continuity I don't think it's a good
> idea. I'm not a fan of 'long' or 'multiple' haiku anyway, it seems
> completely counter to what a haiku experience is.
>
>
> Frederick:
>
> I agree completely with your suggestions, should Douglas choose to
> abandon the haiku aspect of this/these altogether. :)
> worth a mention here is that haiku traditionally, sensibly, are never
> titled. the closest thing to a title would be a short phrase
> describing the scenario/situation of the haiku (such as Issa's "At my
> daughter's grave, thirty days after her death". Issa is known for his
> playful, often humorously morbid & liberal haiku, he's worth checking
> out: http://www.poemhunter.com/kobayashi-issa/poet-9275/ . a searing
> example (!):
>
> Writing shit about new snow
> for the rich
> is not art.
>
> (tr. Hass)
>
> KS
>
> On 27/07/06, Frederick Pollack <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Douglas Barbour" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 11:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: snap 26 VII 2006
> >
> >
> > > Double haiku for a damaged world:
> > >
> > > Don't read those headlines
> > > the thin moon grins grimaces
> > > Think of my dead dust
> > >
> > > On a blasted plain
> > > a single cherry blossom
> > > drifts on a grey breeze
> > >
> > Doug, I like this but I have a suggestion. The second stanza is very
> > obviously a haiku - not only because of the rhythm but the elegiac tone and
> > the stock-property of a cherry-blossom. Why not call the poem "Global
> > Warming" or "The Warming" and let the haiku angle emerge? Suggestion
> > (de-haikuizing) for first stanza: "The thin moon grimaces / at my dead
> > dust." And that "a" in the last line weakens "grey breeze," I think -
> > possibly something like "dawdles on grey breeze"?
> >
>
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